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Racism in America and the Religious Right

CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
edited April 2011 in Buddhism Today
A recent telephone poll found that nearly half of the registered Republicans in Mississippi think "mixed-race marriages should be against the law". That's almost half of the people in that political party down there, who not only subscribe to racism but are proud enough of the belief to tell a stranger over the phone about it.

And this during the twenty-first century, when we have a President who has parents of different races. So about half the Republicans in that state, at least, don't just vote for someone else, but think our President's father should have been locked in prison for the crime of marrying a white woman.

I swear, I despair at times. And the fact that this is supported and even encouraged by the Christian churches and Preachers in every town around there, the same as they did slavery and segregation and Jim Crow laws and have never changed their teaching, is why I refuse to allow people to say "Oh, all religions are really the same, fundamentally!" No, they are not. Exclusive religions of any type, the kind that preaches that some people are chosen and others are evil, contain the seeds of hatred.

There are times when I look at my Bodhisattva vows, and sigh. One day. One day, people will learn. Or maybe they won't.



Comments

  • B5CB5C Veteran
    "Mississippi" was your biggest clue. Mississippi is part of the Bible Belt.
  • ArjquadArjquad Veteran
    edited April 2011
    It's the American south, don't expect anyone to be tolerate of beliefs other than their own.
  • I dont think people will learn.....although if education gets better, this kind of thing would lessen.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited April 2011
    OMG, Cinorjer, this is truly alarming! I don't think it's just a "Southern White boys will be boys" thing, I think it has to do with the extreme polarization and combativeness of party politics in the US since the Bushes (or was it since Reagan?), the rise of conservative talk radio where outrageous and inflammatory views create a climate of hostility that's viewed as normal and acceptable, plus the fact that the latter phenomenon leads to a sense of entitlement for hitherto marginal viewpoints to take center stage unabashedly. Well, and Bush Jr. "discovered" the conservative Christian vote as he was running his father's Presidential campaign, and has cultivated that sector ever since, which has given those folks a sense of legitimacy they didn't have before. Also, we may be seeing a backlash to a Black presidency (ya think?)

    What to do? :(
  • edited April 2011
    And the fact that this is supported and even encouraged by the Christian churches and Preachers in every town around there, the same as they did slavery and segregation and Jim Crow laws and have never changed their teaching...
    What evidence is there to support this statement? I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but you quote a statistic in the first part of your post, whereas you make a generalization in the second part that has no statistical or other support. While your statement may ultimately prove to be true, it sure has started a string of apparently un-Buddhist comments. Are we not supposed to have compassion for people that we consider to be ignorant?

    A black man would not have been jailed for this offense, because he never would have gotten a marriage license for it in the first place.

    I agree with the general tone of your post- the remaining racism in America at this late date is truly tragic. Despairing (your word) of your Bodhisattva vow is equally tragic.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    OMG, Cinorjer, this is truly alarming! I don't think it's just a "Southern White boys will be boys" thing, I think it has to do with the extreme polarization and combativeness of party politics in the US since the Bushes (or was it since Reagan?), the rise of conservative talk radio where outrageous and inflammatory views create a climate of hostility that's viewed as normal and acceptable, plus the fact that the latter phenomenon leads to a sense of entitlement for hitherto marginal viewpoints to take center stage unabashedly. Well, and Bush Jr. "discovered" the conservative Christian vote as he was running his father's Presidential campaign, and has cultivated that sector ever since, which has given those folks a sense of legitimacy they didn't have before. Also, we may be seeing a backlash to a Black presidency (ya think?)

    What to do? :(
    Well, the political aspect...to me it really began back in the mid-1960s. The GOP got pretty extreme back in 1964 when they nominated Goldwater. But then the Dems got pretty extreme left when they went with McGovern a few years later. In both cases, their parties paid the price.

    There is good news. Specifically regarding mixed race marriages, just a few days ago (wish I could remember where) I read an article about the huge increase in mixed race marriages in the deep South. And, on politics, Glen Beck will no longer have a nightly show on FOX beginning sometime later this year.
  • TakuanTakuan Veteran
    If you want to know why so many Fundamentalists feel this way, look up "The Curse of Ham". It's not the main contributing factor, but it's a big one. You also have to understand that many of these people are brought up in an environment where this attitude has been passed down for generations. They don't know any better, but what is worse is that many don't want to know any better.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham
  • It took me less than five minutes to find this...

    "Buddhist extremists target Christian churches in Sri Lanka

    Sri Lankan churches came under attack again this Sunday by organized groups of Buddhist extremists led by influential monks, according to Police sources.

    Two Christian churches were attacked amid mounting inter-religious tensions according to the police. This incident - which comes four days after unrest at a cremation of a controversial Buddhist monk who know for stirring Sinhala nationalist sentiments - is the latest in a pattern of violence against churches in Sri Lanka, police sources further told TNS...

    ...The call for “unethical conversions” to be banned was made at a convention of 1,500 Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka's capital on September, according to church sources. The demand followed a ruling by the country's Supreme Court in July that Christian groups cannot register as social charities since their work contravenes the Sri Lankan constitution, sources further stated.

    Article 9 of the Constitution holds that the state should give "foremost place" to Buddhism and that it is its duty to "protect and foster" Buddhism..."

    http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557
  • There is good news. Specifically regarding mixed race marriages, just a few days ago (wish I could remember where) I read an article about the huge increase in mixed race marriages in the deep South. And, on politics, Glen Beck will no longer have a nightly show on FOX beginning sometime later this year.
    I think the article was in the New York Times. Possibly in one of the Sunday editions.

  • "Buddhist extremists"....there is no end to the idiocy
  • "Buddhist extremists"....there is no end to the idiocy
    See? It's not just in the American South.

  • B5CB5C Veteran

    Article 9 of the Constitution holds that the state should give "foremost place" to Buddhism and that it is its duty to "protect and foster" Buddhism..."

    http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557
    Don't you wish that most states have their own version of "Establishment Clause?"


  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    This really isn't difficult to accept with compassion if you look.

    Racisim in the south wasn't really about hating minorities, it was about economic viability. You had to own slaves to run tobacco (and then cotton) farms with any hope of profit. In order for a loving heart to be able to see slaves, they had to be seperate, different, like livestock.

    This is less than 200 years old, and their economy is still horrible, generally speaking. Their poverty and fears still abide, and racisim is a fruit of it. Sad, sure, but if you consider the present patterns of racial tension to be unjustified as though they are just bad people, you have also missed the target. Luckily, everyone learns.. at their own pace of course.

    And don't even get me started about how the greedy "slaveless" north helped decimate the south through price fixing and tariffs, all the while using sweat shops and child labor to... ah well.... (deep breath)... the past is gone. Too many people need us today to dwell for long.

    The main view to consider is that people are not static "racist right wing christians", but living, fluid continuities of tradition, fear and mental fixations that are passed from parent to child in their small communities. Are they so hard to accept?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    This really isn't difficult to accept with compassion if you look.

    Racisim in the south wasn't really about hating minorities, it was about economic viability. You had to own slaves to run tobacco (and then cotton) farms with any hope of profit. In order for a loving heart to be able to see slaves, they had to be seperate, different, like livestock.

    This is less than 200 years old, and their economy is still horrible, generally speaking. Their poverty and fears still abide, and racisim is a fruit of it. Sad, sure, but if you consider the present patterns of racial tension to be unjustified as though they are just bad people, you have also missed the target. Luckily, everyone learns.. at their own pace of course.

    And don't even get me started about how the greedy "slaveless" north helped decimate the south through price fixing and tariffs, all the while using sweat shops and child labor to... ah well.... (deep breath)... the past is gone. Too many people need us today to dwell for long.

    The main view to consider is that people are not static "racist right wing christians", but living, fluid continuities of tradition, fear and mental fixations that are passed from parent to child in their small communities. Are they so hard to accept?
    The average foot soldier who fought and died in the Civil War didn't own slaves.
  • edited April 2011
    Are they so hard to accept?
    I'm not sure what you mean by "accept". I think the point of the OP is that this situation is rife with ignorance, and ignorance leads to suffering. Isn't Buddhism about ending ignorance and suffering, not accepting it? Maybe I misunderstood you, if so, forgive me. I think the "What to do?" question was more to the point; how to address the root cause of ignorance running amok in order to end the suffering. There were probably more than just a few bodhisattvas among the Freedom Riders supporting the Civil Rights Movement (not to mention: leading it).


  • People tend to be more racist than you think. Even on a subconscious level. I really feel the U.S. as a nation are improving on that, especially with a black president. But that doesn't mean people still aren't racist. A good majority are.

    I do my best not to be racist, *but there are stereotypes that seem to just hold a lot of truth to them. Living in L.A. I am around all races and I still see a lot of racism. From *everybody. Every ethnicity is racist. And this is a natural adaptation. Those who know a bit of psychology will know about the "tribe" simile. Where people tend to make friends who are like them. So that right there can be seen as racist to want to be with people of your own ethnicity, culture, or background, but it's a natural adaptation unfortunately that I see happen over and over in every type of community.

    It's the same thing with interracial marriage. If someone can actually make interracial marriage work that is a beautiful thing, but in my experience from what I've seen, interracial marriages can have a lot of culture clash. That doesn't mean I am against them. It means that I believe to make them successful both sides have to work on getting along and liberating themselves to be more tolerant of their partners differences.


  • Article 9 of the Constitution holds that the state should give "foremost place" to Buddhism and that it is its duty to "protect and foster" Buddhism..."

    http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557
    Don't you wish that most states have their own version of "Establishment Clause?"
    No. I don't think I understand your question, but as it sits, no. There should be no establishment clauses in the US or any state.
  • Yes, I know that temples in Buddhist cultures can degenerate into just another part of the ruling structure. It's happened over and over in the history of Buddhism as it spread around the world, where it becomes the official religion, followed by cronyism and replacing transformative effort with empty ritual. Or in places like Japan, it becomes irrelevant as temples are handed down from father to son and many people just consider them as ceremonial accessories at funerals. People are people, no matter what culture or religion.

    The people are the same, but the teaching is not. What's going on in Thailand and places like Sri Lanka is an aberration, not the norm. There is a nasty side to exclusive religions devoted to fighting evil. It's built into the teaching. If all religions were equally valid or useless, then what is anyone here doing messing around with Buddhism, unless you're from a Buddhist culture? Why don't you just walk down to the nearest church?

    I just get sad at times, looking at what people do to each other. Looking at the world around us, and how people use their marvelous minds to justify their selfish desires, I realize we have a word to describe the problem that did not exist in Buddha's day. That world is addiction. I have dealt with family and friends who were addicted to alcohol or drugs, and I realized that the dukkha people inflict upon themselves is not just because they have selfish desires, but because they're addictedto their selfish desires. And like addicts everywere, their minds have a near infinite capacity to justify and excuse and ignore reality in the quest to temporarily satisfy those desires.

    You can't blame a wolf for acting like a wolf, and I know you can't blame people for acting like people. It's just...wouldn't it be wonderful, if they could just see each other as the precious beings they are, just a tiny bit, for once?

    I need to spend a few days meditating and recharging the old batteries. Sorry to dump on everyone. See you in a few.


  • aMattaMatt Veteran

    I just get sad at times, looking at what people do to each other.

    You can't blame a wolf for acting like a wolf, and I know you can't blame people for acting like people. It's just...wouldn't it be wonderful, if they could just see each other as the precious beings they are, just a tiny bit, for once?

    I need to spend a few days meditating and recharging the old batteries. Sorry to dump on everyone. See you in a few.
    Cinorjer,

    I apologize for not addressing your despair more directly, there seemed to be a rising sentiment that I focused on first. I can hear the sorrow you have, seeing extended family caught in cycles of addiction and ignorance. What rich empathy you've cultivated, to love ignorant strangers so potently!

    People do spin in their suffering, but eventually, when many of them open their eyes, that spinning becomes their greatest teacher. It is sad, to see people in cycles of confusion and pain. I've found that in order to accept the sadness, for me, I had to spend time learning to respect just how rich the soil becomes for people as they cycle. Suffering isn't just random and unfortunate... it is a miracle of nature that teaches us how to live in harmony. Their unskillful behaviors and thoughts are fueling the rocket... preparing the impetus of evolution, both theirs and ours. How lucky!

    Good luck with your recharging.

    Matt
  • A recent telephone poll found that nearly half of the registered Republicans in Mississippi think "mixed-race marriages should be against the law". That's almost half of the people in that political party down there, who not only subscribe to racism but are proud enough of the belief to tell a stranger over the phone about it.

    And this during the twenty-first century, when we have a President who has parents of different races. So about half the Republicans in that state, at least, don't just vote for someone else, but think our President's father should have been locked in prison for the crime of marrying a white woman.

    I swear, I despair at times. And the fact that this is supported and even encouraged by the Christian churches and Preachers in every town around there, the same as they did slavery and segregation and Jim Crow laws and have never changed their teaching, is why I refuse to allow people to say "Oh, all religions are really the same, fundamentally!" No, they are not. Exclusive religions of any type, the kind that preaches that some people are chosen and others are evil, contain the seeds of hatred.

    There are times when I look at my Bodhisattva vows, and sigh. One day. One day, people will learn. Or maybe they won't.



    I have to admit I have followed only some of the comments.
    It has reminded me of a tennis match, later - so I gave up.

    Firstly you use terms like:

    Republicans in Mississippi
    Political party
    Christian churches and Preachers
    Etc.

    Those are only populist terms to the brainwashing of ‘’Alpha’’ individuals in our society.
    I call them alpha with but a negative interpretation.
    Nonetheless, we all have brought them to the power /at least in so called democratic countries/. Consequently, negativity applies to all of us.

    The slavery exploitation, religious intolerance is much more prominent in non democratic places.
    All this seems to escape the media and our philosophical divagations about morality, Buddhism, philosophy, at the same time.

    As to your statement: ‘’ One day. One day, people will learn. Or maybe they won't’’

    I hope we will as humanity.

    This site is full of compassionate people and Buddhists - following the Buddha teaching.


    Let me as a question:

    How many of you gave some of your money to less fortunate? (Pls forget a tax reduction).
    How many are prepared to put their wellbeing at risk to the less fortunate?

    Don’t take this post as patronizing.

    I feel guilty enough for looking after my family and friends and not spending enough energy for others.

    :vimp: :facepalm:
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    one day, i think everyone will be so mixed no one will care anymore. i don't think any of my african american friends are 100% african anymore. they think that by 2050, whites will be less than 50% of the country.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity

    americans can be so dumb. when i grew up, i learned america was "the melting pot," a combination of people from all over the world. we seem to have forgotten this somewhere as we push away people of other origins, some asserting, "well, we were here first!" which in reality, is the biggest lie since we stole the land from the native americans anyways.

    america had so much potential to truly be a meeting of the world, blurring the lines of nationality and race, but people seem to forget that, (aside from the native americans) everyone here was once just a foreigner on a boat.
  • (aside from the native americans) everyone here was once just a foreigner on a boat.
    The Mexicans were also native Americans and were basically here "first". Basically all of the south West used to be Mexico, but that's another thread.

  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited April 2011
    I'm not from the USA, so speaking from the perspective of a UK citizen, the deep south of America seems scary. I have never been to America tough so this is just due to stories I have heard and what I see in movies and documentaries. Saying that one of the movies was Deliverance, which definitely did not give a good impression. I can still remember that kid with the banjo :hair:
    I thought I'd watch it again on youtube


    yup its still scary :hair:

    Metta to all sentient beings
  • LincLinc Site owner Detroit Moderator
    edited April 2011
    almost half of the people in that political party
    You can choose to be disheartened by that statistic, or amazed by how few that is compared with a generation ago. Is it something to despair at, or be motivated by? :)
  • B5CB5C Veteran
    edited July 2011


    No. I don't think I understand your question, but as it sits, no. There should be no establishment clauses in the US or any state.
    You sure you have the right "establishment clause?"

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


    This is not the America I down't want. A good number of Republicans who are running for President supports this guy:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/iwWfcZTEhA8?fs=1&hl=en_US&hd=1
  • Let me say.. As someone from the USA that I hate it here. I am deeply concerned about whether I want to bring children into this country as a mother.... If I had the money I'd leave today
  • Do you have a reference for the original posts info? I'd like to post this on other websites but some are hostile territory and I'd need a reference.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I'm not from the USA, so speaking from the perspective of a UK citizen, the deep south of America seems scary. I have never been to America tough so this is just due to stories I have heard and what I see in movies and documentaries. Saying that one of the movies was Deliverance, which definitely did not give a good impression. I can still remember that kid with the banjo :hair:
    I thought I'd watch it again on youtube


    yup its still scary :hair:

    Metta to all sentient beings
    I think it's time to get over "Deliverence" -- that was 40 years ago.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    (aside from the native americans) everyone here was once just a foreigner on a boat.
    The Mexicans were also native Americans and were basically here "first". Basically all of the south West used to be Mexico, but that's another thread.

    too true. although we use the term "native american" to refer to a specific group of people, by definition, it really should include mexicans as well.
  • B5CB5C Veteran

    I think it's time to get over "Deliverence" -- that was 40 years ago.
    Not in some areas. ;)
  • B5CB5C Veteran

    too true. although we use the term "native american" to refer to a specific group of people, by definition, it really should include mexicans as well.
    Not all Mexicans are Native Americans. Don't forget some of the Spanish and the French.
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran

    too true. although we use the term "native american" to refer to a specific group of people, by definition, it really should include mexicans as well.
    Not all Mexicans are Native Americans. Don't forget some of the Spanish and the French.
    what i meant was, "they are native to america." (using the broader definition of america as the continent, not just the united states) i originally said that all other nationalities were brought here by boat, mr serenity pointed out that mexicans were not. while it is true that now days some are mixtures of spanish and french, i was talking about the people indigenous to mexico.

    ...i feel like this conversation is really pointing out how ridiculous these concepts of country and borders really are. i imagine, if we really wanted to get into it, we could talk about how they speculate that the original people were nomads originating in africa. they speculate that the indigenous people of america walked across the land bridge.
  • I dont think people will learn.....although if education gets better, this kind of thing would lessen.
    Sadly, that's not necessarily true. I personally know people with university educations who believe things like that. And also that the earth is exactly 6,247 years old (or whatever), and that the Bible is the exact, literal word of God. Many of them firmly believe that man cannot possibly have walked on the moon, nor that man made CO2 could remotely be considered a factor in the earth's climate (and of course, the climate is not changing, it's just a cycle).

    This is also not just a phenomenon of the so-called "Bible belt" in America. The Bible belt has grown to encompass a large majority of America. Sadly, I am firmly of the belief that within my lifetime, blood will be shed in America over the issue of "religion". The far "Christian" right, or at least a good portion of it, believes it is their duty to be sure that America is, or becomes a "Christian" nation, and many of them would likely be willing to fight to make that happen. Not much different from the fundamentalist Muslims in many countries in that respect. I surely hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.
  • lol Mountains...They should make a movie where all religions get into a war against each other. I'd watch that.

    but I do think education helps and its not like the education system in the United States is that great, so thats not the model I am thinking of. I think if education doesnt solve the problem...then its game over for all of us.

  • too true. although we use the term "native american" to refer to a specific group of people, by definition, it really should include mexicans as well.
    Not all Mexicans are Native Americans. Don't forget some of the Spanish and the French.
    The word "Mexican" doesn't mean a dark native. It basically means a mix of several ethnicity that made one race that was born in the South West. Mexicans look very different, some looking just like tall white people with dark hair, and others looking like tan skinned Indians.

    It was in the 1500s when Spain invaded the Aztec empire, so from there is when the interracial sex began and the Spanish basically became "Mexican". That is also why Mexico is primarily Catholic rather than "Aztec religion" though you'd be surprised how many still worship the Aztecs and their gods. It was before that where they were already living in the South West of the U.S., but even after that the new mixed race of Mexicans still moved upwards. Mexico lost Texas and a few other states in the 1800s, so yes even the Mexicans who are part Spanish can be called Native Americans.
  • All through history an arrogant group of humans wanted to push their beliefs on other people because they thought they were more advanced. People can say it's primarily the white man that does this. But it has happened even between Native American and Mexican tribes where they kill each other for conquest (there are many examples). So really what it comes down to is a males primal urges to dominate and expand their "tribe" their "territory". This is a natural desire. The same desire that predator alpha male animals get.

    When a group of humans see that the other tribe isn't like them, they want to exterminate them. That's what is going on right now between Republicans and Democrats. Damn Republicans and their Christianity just don't want to try to get along. Everyone needs good psychology to change their way of thinking otherwise it's very easy for them to be naturally racist or naturally prejudice, it's in the human genes.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I dont think people will learn.....although if education gets better, this kind of thing would lessen.
    Sadly, that's not necessarily true. I personally know people with university educations who believe things like that... and that the Bible is the exact, literal word of God. ...
    Sort of like Buddhists who believe that the Dhamma is the exact, literal word of Buddha?

  • B5CB5C Veteran
    edited July 2011

    ...i feel like this conversation is really pointing out how ridiculous these concepts of country and borders really are.
    So true:


  • Hmm, as much as I love Serj, I have to disagree. Political borders are great. They make it very difficult for one dictator to rule the world.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Great thread!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Do you have a reference for the original posts info? I'd like to post this on other websites but some are hostile territory and I'd need a reference.
    So you want to take the gist of this topic, and venture into "hostile territory" with it?
    isn't that somewhat argumentative, antagonistic and controversial?
    You actually want to stir up some argument by metaphorically slapping someone in the face with a gauntlet, and say "see what kind of people we have here?"

    Isn't that actually the whole crux of this argument?
    Intolerance, division and hostility?

    Wouldn't it be more mindful, considerate and generous to NOT venture into said territory, and let sleeping dogs lie?

    You know I've banned people for less, don't you?

  • Thats a good point.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Glad you agree! :D
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