Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

How can I become a good person? (WARNING: VERY unpleasant content)

DesignTheWorldDesignTheWorld
edited September 2011 in Buddhism Basics
I was going to tag this onto the othe rpost I started, but I though this might be more appropriate as a new discussion.

How can I become a good person. In this short time I have been listening to the teachings of Buddhism I have to admit that 99% of what Ajahn Brahm speaks of I agree with as an extension of me. Its like it feels like a natural truth.

Yet I do not see myself as a good person by his teachings.

I have lied, I have cheated, I have broken up a marriage in the past and screwed over the woman I loved. I have harboured hatred in my heart and sought to project a false reality on the world and try to force people to see me in that fake image. I have manipulated people to make myself feel better. I have been sexually abused when I was have used others for sex later on in life.

Through this, I am deeply unhappy. 1st noble truth: the world is full of suffering.

I know listening to Dhamma talks online teaches me so much and I feel like my world has already began to change from this, but I know that watching these alone wont uproot these deep set unpleasant characteristics I have lived with. How can I follow the teachings of the Buddha and become enlightened by the truths I have heard and agree with, rather than just hear them?

Comments

  • HubrisHubris
    You have already begun your transformation. You have realized and perhaps learned from your past mistakes. I challenge anyone here to claim that they have not done harm in their lives at some point.
    You can change the unhappiness and hate in your heart by opening it to the condition of others who likely share your pain, as its not unique to you.
    I have lied,cheated and stolen in my life too as well as having been molested, and sure no one can take those things back, however in becoming a better person to ourselves and to others we can have a better sense of being.
    It's not too late to change, and the desire to is a good start. What happened in the past does not mean you are or will remain a bad person, and relatively speaking "bad" is subjective. Compared to a murderer your shortcomings are minor.
    Don't be so hard on yourself.
  • DesignTheWorldDesignTheWorld
    I feel like I am a murderer, and I feel lost.
  • GuyCGuyC Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Hi DesignTheWorld,
    How can I follow the teachings of the Buddha and become enlightened by the truths I have heard and agree with, rather than just hear them?
    One step at a time. Be patient towards yourself, be kind, be gentle, make peace. Sometimes it takes time to deal with past issues.

    We all have our "old kamma" to deal with, but how we deal with the results of our "old kamma" is the "new kamma" that we are making. So, whatever we have to deal with in life, we always have the opportunity to make good kamma in the present moment. Even listening to Dhamma talks is a form of good kamma. :)

    If it is possible to try to make amends with people you have hurt in the past and if you think it is appropriate to do so, then do so. If it is not possible, then you can still forgive yourself for it.

    Also, Metta (loving-kindness) may be beneficial for you. Metta towards oneself is very important; if we don't love ourselves then we can't love anyone else. It may take time to develop, but it is a skill which anyone can master with time, patient, practice, reflection and refinement. I have found it very useful to set aside a certain amount of time on a regular basis for the cultivation of loving-kindness. If you want a specific technique, then you can try these talks which explain it in detail (and include some guided meditations): http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/downloads/itemlist/category/62-june-2011.html

    Metta,

    Guy
  • YoungBuddhistYoungBuddhist
    You are not alone- many people who come to Buddhism do so after negative experiences in life, or after 'hitting rock-bottom'. Take a look at the eightfold path, it can be the guidelines by which you may live your life in a much happier way. The past is gone, you can not change what you have done, but you can choose what you will do in the future. By practicing the eight-fold path you will be able to build up your compassion and generosity towards yourself and others and get away from this self-destructive behavior. Dont worry if it feels like the results aren't happening as fast as you'd like them to, it is a very gradual process.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited September 2011
    1st noble truth: the world is full of suffering.
    1st noble truth, as the Buddha taught: egoistic attachment is suffering

    Your mind suffers because you think back to the past as think: "I did these harmful actions"

    The Buddha taught this is wrong view and this wrong view is the state of suffering

    The truth of Buddhism is ignorance or 'not-knowing' did these harmful actions

    Therefore the Buddha has a sense of forgiveness towards harmful actions, as shown in the quote below, where the Buddha forgave a real murderer

    What about you? Are you able to see, understand & forgive like the Buddha did?

    :)
    Yes, great king, a transgression overcame you in that you were so foolish, so muddle-headed and so unskilled as to kill your father — a righteous man, a righteous king — for the sake of sovereign rulership.

    But because you see your transgression as such and make amends in accordance with the Dhamma, we accept your confession.

    For it is a cause of growth in the Dhamma & Discipline of the noble ones when, seeing a transgression as such, one makes amends in accordance with the Dhamma and exercises restraint in the future.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.02.0.than.html
  • StoicBuddhistAlexStoicBuddhistAlex Veteran
    Ill be kinda rude with you.

    Your still alive, you are not in jail, you can still do good things so dont make excuses about that you cant be a better person.

    You were and ass now stop being and ass and dont you try to justify yourself not to change for better.
  • ddrishiddrishi
    Don't bother about being a good person. Don't bother about following or not following any teachings of Buddha. Just start a disciplined meditational practice and you will see in a few months that your life is effortlessly on auto-pilot. This is my personal experience too.
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    edited September 2011
    Don't bother about being a good person. Don't bother about following or not following any teachings of Buddha. Just start a disciplined meditational practice and you will see in a few months that your life is effortlessly on auto-pilot. This is my personal experience too.
    I just don't see that happening. Although, its very well possible, it seems like a stretch. Maybe I'll try it and see if its works out for me.
  • painpain
    Honestly, with all the things you described yourself doing, you just sound like a normal person to me. No more evil or good than anyone I usually encounter.

    I can sense your intention and willingness to change for the better. I'm happy for ya.

    Ajahn Braham talked about this very issue many times also. You're only reflecting on all the negative things you think you have done without acknowledging that the fact there's probably far more positive things you've done.
  • AllbuddhaBoundAllbuddhaBound Veteran
    One of the most powerful lessons I have learned in Buddhism, is to accept what is. Not concern myself with what I want, or what I regret. When you learn to be accepting everything, what we would call good or bad does not matter. We can accept our past for what it is. The past.
  • auraaura Veteran
    edited September 2011

    I have lied, I have cheated, I have broken up a marriage in the past and screwed over the woman I loved. I have harboured hatred in my heart and sought to project a false reality on the world and try to force people to see me in that fake image. I have manipulated people to make myself feel better. I have been sexually abused when I was have used others for sex later on in life.
    Through this, I am deeply unhappy. 1st noble truth: the world is full of suffering.
    Yes... the world is full of suffering.
    Why? Because people tend to become what they fear.

    Once upon a time they were innocent children whose open hearts trusted and loved, but their love and trust were exploited, abused, betrayed by others with walls around their hearts.
    The pain of that was so great...
    that the children closed down their own hearts so as to not feel the pain anymore, to not feel the pain ever again.
    If one doesn't feel, if one doesn't trust, if one doesn't love, if one doesn't share... one cannot ever be hurt, abused, exploited again, right? Never never never again.
    And so the walls around the heart went up like a fortress.
    It was being smart, it was looking out first and foremost always for number one, it was playing to win and playing it cool...
    it was protection, it was security....
    The walled heart screamed that everyone else was at fault and everyone else had a problem...
    while telling itself that it did not feel, that it did not care,
    so that it could never be hurt again...
    all in the name of security.

    After a while that "security" is seen for what it truly is...
    an inescapable prison in which one sits among the ruins of everything one ever loved... and destroyed...in life...
    including oneself.
    Sigh. The earth is full to overflowing with such horrible suffering.

    It is not too late; it is never too late to change.
    Change involves opening up and tearing down the wall around one's heart and facing that original pain...
    that one has spent all of one's life denying and running away from while acting it out on others.
  • shanyinshanyin Novice Yogin Sault Ontario Veteran
    "How can I follow the teachings of the Buddha and become enlightened by the truths I have heard and agree with, rather than just hear them? "

    Where I live, there is no Buddhist monastery, meditation teachers are hard to find, and there are very few buddhists. If I could have gone to a when I started, I would have. It could help, check out your city on google. Maybe ask a monk you're question, the one I quoted if you can find one. Or even try typing in youtube: ask a monk and you can ask that monk your question.

    May I suggest continue reading suttas online or in books as informal study. Really learn about the four noble truths. Looking back, admiting to not really having a buddhist lifestyle anymore, I think it could be good to stick to reading about the four noble truths. Rather than dragons and gods and realms people walking on water ect. That's my two cents. What's important about Buddhism to you?

    my main advice is to find a teacher,

    be well.
  • vixthenomadvixthenomad
    @DesignTheWorld - you already are a good person. A good person with a painful past. You've taken the first step towards overcoming the past's effects on you. Instead of continuing to spread your pain to other sentient beings you have stepped back and questioned the way you live and the sort of person you want to be. What more could anyone ask? at this stage? :)

    Welcome to the forum, by the way.
  • driedleafdriedleaf Veteran
    Fear and shame (Hiri Ottappa), without them the world would not survive.
  • mithrilmithril Veteran

    I have lied, I have cheated, I have broken up a marriage in the past and screwed over the woman I loved. I have harboured hatred in my heart and sought to project a false reality on the world and try to force people to see me in that fake image. I have manipulated people to make myself feel better. I have been sexually abused when I was have used others for sex later on in life.

    Through this, I am deeply unhappy.
    What you did was unskillful. I am sure you realize that even though it seems that only those other people have lost something by you doing so, you probably didn't gain anything to make you happier by it as well. So essentially all of you got caught up in situations where you got hurt - so all of you require kindness, do not leave yourself out. Why beat yourself up in regret? Will it help those people, will it change what happened? I'm sure you did not intentionally strive to be unhappy, but simply didn't know better.

    But you did those things, and you will have to deal with them now. You will probably remember them for a long time, and the memories will be unpleasant. But don't just push them away, look at them one by one and see where you feel what happened was wrong. If you see where it went wrong, you can now assure yourself you know better now, and will be able to act more skillfully in the future. If you, by your best efforts cannot see what went wrong, maybe it was simply circumstance that got you caught up in it? Sometimes such unfortunate things can just happen, contrary to our intentions. But still, look closely at what you did and learn from it. And if you pay attention to those memories and how they make you feel there can be no other outcome then learning from it.

    You don't need to force yourself to make things right for the people you lied to, cheated etc - when you see what you did clearly, what to do will appear naturally to you, as the best option to improve things (although it may still be hard, and sometimes make you loose the path because you will be afraid to do what is required - so just come back to it again and again, it will work out one time).

    I know listening to Dhamma talks online teaches me so much and I feel like my world has already began to change from this, but I know that watching these alone wont uproot these deep set unpleasant characteristics I have lived with. How can I follow the teachings of the Buddha and become enlightened by the truths I have heard and agree with, rather than just hear them?
    To hear them is the first step. Next you will understand them, if you keep at it.

    This will be the first step of the eightfold path.

  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    I'm afraid you'll have to be a bit more specific on what you want, before I can help you. After all, the simple and only answer to "How can I become a good person?" is "Do good things and avoid doing bad things." To the extent you do that, you are a good person. I am not familiar with this Brahm guy, but if he teaches it's any more difficult than this, then maybe you should listen to someone else for a while.

    But maybe what you're asking is what to do about past bad things you did? You've already done it. Realize they're bad things and resolve not to do stuff like that anymore. Do you want to stop wanting to do bad stuff? Follow the Buddhist 8-step program designed to replace those desires with the desire to help others.

    Your past actions (karma) have brought you to where you are today. Your trying to satisfy selfish desires resulted in suffering to others and yourself in the long run, just like Buddha said it would. So welcome to the club. That makes you human. Now, substitute skillful and unskillful or whatever terms you want for good and bad, if you're more comfortable with it.



  • GuiGui Veteran
    You have Buddha nature. Experience rebirth today.
  • GuiGui Veteran
    I read a story once somewhere about two monks walking home to their monastery on a mountain. They came to a river they had to cross and there was a woman standing there. She was upset because she too had to cross the river and wasn't strong enough to get across. One of the monks said he would carry her across. So he did and on the other side he put her down and they went their separate ways. Later on while going up the mountain the other monk said, I can't believe you carried that woman. You know it is against our practice to even touch a women. I can't believe you would break a vow. Then the first monk said, I put her down after we crossed the river. Why are you still carrying her in you mind?
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    You become a good person by not doing those things now or in the future. The past is irrelevant to being a "good person". What is relevant is what you are doing now and what you will do.
  • tmottestmottes Veteran

    "What do you think, Rahula: What is a mirror for?"

    "For reflection, sir."

    "In the same way, Rahula, bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions are to be done with repeated reflection.

    "Whenever you want to do a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful bodily action with painful consequences, painful results, then any bodily action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful bodily action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any bodily action of that sort is fit for you to do.

    "While you are doing a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.

    "Having done a bodily action, you should reflect on it: 'This bodily action I have done — did it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Was it an unskillful bodily action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful bodily action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should confess it, reveal it, lay it open to the Teacher or to a knowledgeable companion in the holy life. Having confessed it... you should exercise restraint in the future. But if on reflection you know that it did not lead to affliction... it was a skillful bodily action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then you should stay mentally refreshed & joyful, training day & night in skillful mental qualities.

    "Whenever you want to do a verbal action, you should reflect on it: 'This verbal action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful verbal action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful verbal action with painful consequences, painful results, then any verbal action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful verbal action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any verbal action of that sort is fit for you to do.

    "While you are doing a verbal action, you should reflect on it: 'This verbal action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful verbal action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.

    "Having done a verbal action, you should reflect on it: 'This verbal action I have done — did it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Was it an unskillful verbal action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful verbal action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should confess it, reveal it, lay it open to the Teacher or to a knowledgeable companion in the holy life. Having confessed it... you should exercise restraint in the future. But if on reflection you know that it did not lead to affliction... it was a skillful verbal action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then you should stay mentally refreshed & joyful, training day & night in skillful mental qualities.

    "Whenever you want to do a mental action, you should reflect on it: 'This mental action I want to do — would it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Would it be an unskillful mental action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it would lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it would be an unskillful mental action with painful consequences, painful results, then any mental action of that sort is absolutely unfit for you to do. But if on reflection you know that it would not cause affliction... it would be a skillful mental action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then any mental action of that sort is fit for you to do.

    "While you are doing a mental action, you should reflect on it: 'This mental action I am doing — is it leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Is it an unskillful mental action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it is leading to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both... you should give it up. But if on reflection you know that it is not... you may continue with it.

    "Having done a mental action, you should reflect on it: 'This mental action I have done — did it lead to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both? Was it an unskillful mental action, with painful consequences, painful results?' If, on reflection, you know that it led to self-affliction, to the affliction of others, or to both; it was an unskillful mental action with painful consequences, painful results, then you should feel distressed, ashamed, & disgusted with it. Feeling distressed, ashamed, & disgusted with it, you should exercise restraint in the future. But if on reflection you know that it did not lead to affliction... it was a skillful mental action with pleasant consequences, pleasant results, then you should stay mentally refreshed & joyful, training day & night in skillful mental qualities.

    "Rahula, all those brahmans & contemplatives in the course of the past who purified their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, did it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

    "All those brahmans & contemplatives in the course of the future who will purify their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, will do it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

    "All those brahmans & contemplatives at present who purify their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions, do it through repeated reflection on their bodily actions, verbal actions, & mental actions in just this way.

    "Thus, Rahula, you should train yourself: 'I will purify my bodily actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my verbal actions through repeated reflection. I will purify my mental actions through repeated reflection.' That's how you should train yourself."

    That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Ven. Rahula delighted in the Blessed One's words.

    Along with a study guide for MN 61: http://www.sati.org/wp-content/upLoads/Mn-61-study-guide-v2.pdf
  • SpacelessSpaceless
    There is no bad person but bad understanding. You gonna DesignTheWorld with true love.
  • FallingAwakeFallingAwake New
    Perhaps the disturbing thoughts of the past can be dealt with by increased meditation. I can tell you from my own experiance that meditating more often has helped me to deal with the negative, disturbing thoughts and guilt from my past.
    mmo
  • shays860shays860
    Hey guys. I wanted to ask this question but i'm sure it comes up in very similar forms all the time so i thought I'd just tack it on here instead of giving it it's own thread. Loving-kindness. The idea is to be compassionate to all living things right? Even if the're crappy people? If a Buddhist saw Hitler on the street and had a clean shot and for some reason had a gun (likely right?) should he take the shot and maybe save thousands more people or be compassionate to that individual and keep walking?
  • Kwantum_KevKwantum_Kev
    @DesignTheWorld, it sounds like you, as so many people do, have gotten caught up in fixating on only the first Noble Truth, that there is suffering. People always seem to overlook the next 3, which are the real crux of the Buddha's teachings, and where our freedom and redemption are - that there is a cause of suffering, that there is an end to suffering, and most importantly, that there is a path leading to the cessation of suffering.

    Just realizing that there is suffering, such as that which you are experiencing, can be the first step on the path. But it is only the first step. If you want true freedom, quit beating yourself up and start trudging the path to liberation.


    Kwan Kev
Sign In or Register to comment.