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Did the Earth once have two moons?

DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
edited October 2011 in General Banter
A tiny second moon may once have orbited Earth before catastrophically slamming into the other one, a titanic clash that could explain why the two sides of the surviving lunar satellite are so different from each other, a new study suggests.

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Topics
Science and Technology Space Technology Technology Metals and Mining Sector Rare Earths Production Materials Sector
The second moon around Earth would have been about 750 miles (1,200 kilometers) wide and could have formed from the same collision between the planet and a Mars-sized object that scientists suspect helped create the moon we see in the sky today, astronomers said.

The gravitational tug of war between the Earth and moon slowed the rate at which it whirls, such that it now always shows just one side to Earth. The far side of the moon remained a mystery for centuries until 1959, when the Soviet Luna 3 spacecraft first snapped photos of it. (The far side is sometimes erroneously called the dark side, even though it has days and nights just like the near side.) [Video: How the Moon Was Made]

IN PICTURES: We love the moon

The moon has two faces

The moon's far side is very different than its near side.


http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2011/0803/Did-the-Earth-once-have-two-moons

Comments

  • This is interesting. 2 moons would be cool. Too bad the smaller one was on a collision course with the larger one.
  • 2 moons would have produced very different effects upon our planet. Imagine the tidal system for instance, that would be unusual, and if that was different who is to say what else would become from such a change on our planet.
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Hi @LeonBasin

    Your thread has reminded me of a great, and slightly bonkers film I watched:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vfgcw
    Have you seen the documentary 'In the Shadow of the Moon'? I shall quote from Edgar Mitchell who was speaking on the Apollo 14 Mission. The following has always struck me as being 'Buddhist', if I may express my feelings about the following comments he made in that way:
    "Every two minutes I could see the Earth, the Moon, the Sun and a 360 panorama of the heavens and that was a powerful overwhelming experience, and suddenly I realised the molecules of my body and the molecules of the spacecraft and the molecules in the body of my partners were prototyped and manufactured in some ancient generation of stars. And, that was an overwhelming sense of oneness, of connectedness. It wasn't 'them and us', it was 'that's me. That's all of it. It's one thing.' It was accompanied by an extasy. A sense of 'Oh my God, wow, yes, an insight, an epiphany".

    It is one of the most beautiful documentaries i've ever watched!

    I shall indulge in your link Leon - the moon fascinates me, thanks!

    Dandelion :)
  • The most accepted theory on the evolution of the solar system, suggest that the early planet earth, and indeed all planets, were bombarded with numerous bodies, hence, it is highly likely that two moons could have existed in orbit around or earth at some stage.

    I did a couple of courses in planetary science as an undergraduate at university, and found it really interesting, I was tempted to go down the exoplanet researcher route after my degree, but ended up down another path. Still find it fascinating stuff tough.
    :)

    http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110803/full/news.2011.456.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formation_and_evolution_of_the_Solar_System

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetesimals
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Hi @LeonBasin

    Your thread has reminded me of a great, and slightly bonkers film I watched:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vfgcw
    Have you seen the documentary 'In the Shadow of the Moon'? I shall quote from Edgar Mitchell who was speaking on the Apollo 14 Mission. The following has always struck me as being 'Buddhist', if I may express my feelings about the following comments he made in that way:
    "Every two minutes I could see the Earth, the Moon, the Sun and a 360 panorama of the heavens and that was a powerful overwhelming experience, and suddenly I realised the molecules of my body and the molecules of the spacecraft and the molecules in the body of my partners were prototyped and manufactured in some ancient generation of stars. And, that was an overwhelming sense of oneness, of connectedness. It wasn't 'them and us', it was 'that's me. That's all of it. It's one thing.' It was accompanied by an extasy. A sense of 'Oh my God, wow, yes, an insight, an epiphany".

    It is one of the most beautiful documentaries i've ever watched!

    I shall indulge in your link Leon - the moon fascinates me, thanks!

    Dandelion :)
    Welcome and glad to hear it!:)
    Thanks!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
  • I think I will take more notice of a recent article in Nature over wiki answers or an old article in universetoday @federica ;)

    It is entirely plausible to suggest that earth has had more than one satellite in its history. read the summaries in the links I gave and it will show you this.

  • The real question is who cares? And when those people raise their hands, why do they care? The Earth used to also not even exist... so what? ;)
  • ToshTosh Veteran
    The Earth used to also not even exist... so what? ;)
    So the Earth exists now does it?

    ;):p
  • @Cloud you're sounding a lot like Joy Behar now. I like it.
  • Oh no. Cloud is doing his "What's this got to do with practice" routine.

    People care because they enjoy scientific inquiry. Better they enjoy learning than spending time breaking the precepts, gambling, or ... um ... spending hours on internet forums?? Oh well. Never mind. :-/
  • CloudCloud Veteran
    edited October 2011
    @Tosh
    Conventionally speaking.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator


    It is entirely plausible to suggest that earth has had more than one satellite in its history. read the summaries in the links I gave and it will show you this.

    I am sure the earth has had more than one satellite. I'd be amazed if it didn't.
    But 'satellite' is different to 'moon'.

  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Oh no. Cloud is doing his "What's this got to do with practice" routine.

    People care because they enjoy scientific inquiry. Better they enjoy learning than spending time breaking the precepts, gambling, or ... um ... spending hours on internet forums?? Oh well. Never mind. :-/
    Exactly!:)
    Because it's called history people!
    History is important.
    That is like saying, Hitler existed, so who cares?
    What if there is another Hitler?...!!!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    You think there hasn't been?

    People are one thing.
    "moons" are another.
    It takes a slightly different structure to argue the resurgence of a human being's existence, to that of a planetary body.


  • It is entirely plausible to suggest that earth has had more than one satellite in its history. read the summaries in the links I gave and it will show you this.

    I am sure the earth has had more than one satellite. I'd be amazed if it didn't.
    But 'satellite' is different to 'moon'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_satellite
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited November 2011
    Oh no. Cloud is doing his "What's this got to do with practice" routine.

    People care because they enjoy scientific inquiry. Better they enjoy learning than spending time breaking the precepts, gambling, or ... um ... spending hours on internet forums?? Oh well. Never mind. :-/
    Exactly!:)
    Because it's called history people!
    History is important.
    That is like saying, Hitler existed, so who cares?
    What if there is another Hitler?...!!!

    Well I care for one, plus if everyone had the attitude of, "who cares" about anything, then we would still be in the stone age. I mean if no one cares, then why invent anything, why have laws etc etc, its human curiosity that has propelled civilization from the stone age to advances in societies such as cures and treatments for the countless ailments that exist in our world. Moreover, imagine if Siddhattha Gotama had a "who cares" attitude, imagine if he was happy to stay in his life of luxury and not want to find the meaning of his life; it is thanks to this attitude of caring, of being inquisitive, curious, of wanting to know the answers to what, why, when, where, how, that we have the Dharma, that we have cures to diseases, that we landed on the moon, that we have computers, the list goes on and on. In my opinion its good to be inquisitive, its good to ask questions, its good to care.
    :)
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    Oh no. Cloud is doing his "What's this got to do with practice" routine.

    People care because they enjoy scientific inquiry. Better they enjoy learning than spending time breaking the precepts, gambling, or ... um ... spending hours on internet forums?? Oh well. Never mind. :-/
    Exactly!:)
    Because it's called history people!
    History is important.
    That is like saying, Hitler existed, so who cares?
    What if there is another Hitler?...!!!

    Well I care for one, plus if everyone had the attitude of, "who cares" about anything, then we would still be in the stone age. I mean if no one cares, then why invent anything, why have laws etc etc, its human curiosity that has propelled civilization from the stone age to advances in societies such as cures and treatments for the countless ailments that exist in our world. Moreover, imagine if Siddhattha Gotama had a "who cares" attitude, imagine if he was happy to stay in his life of luxury and not want to find the meaning of his life; it is thanks to this attitude of caring, of being inquisitive, curious, of wanting to know the answers to what, why, when, where, how, that we have the Dharma, that we have cures to diseases, that we landed on the moon, that we have computers, the list goes on and on. In my opinion its good to be inquisitive, its good to ask questions, its good to care.
    :)
    Exactly!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator


    It is entirely plausible to suggest that earth has had more than one satellite in its history. read the summaries in the links I gave and it will show you this.

    I am sure the earth has had more than one satellite. I'd be amazed if it didn't.
    But 'satellite' is different to 'moon'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_satellite
    Yes, the moon is a natural satellite, and we call it a moon. The earth has other satellites, but to refer to them as moons is erroneous.
    The earth has more than one satellite, but has only one moon.





  • It is entirely plausible to suggest that earth has had more than one satellite in its history. read the summaries in the links I gave and it will show you this.

    I am sure the earth has had more than one satellite. I'd be amazed if it didn't.
    But 'satellite' is different to 'moon'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_satellite
    Yes, the moon is a natural satellite, and we call it a moon. The earth has other satellites, but to refer to them as moons is erroneous.
    The earth has more than one satellite, but has only one moon.



    I never once referred to artificial satellites as moons, and yes I think I am well aware that the earth has one moon now, this is not in dispute. What I said was that it is entirely plausible that the earth could have had more than one natural satellite (moon) in its history, and this is not just me saying this, a lot of well established and respected scientists believe that it is plausible also. Again if you read the links I provided, you can see for yourself that it is not absurd at all to propose that the moon once had more than one natural satellite (moon).

    :)
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Meh. Anything's possible, but I'm finding it difficult to relate this specific topic to anything of importance. While I understand the desire to seek answers to scientific questions, what does it change, or improve about your practice?
  • Without knowledge and understanding there is no practice.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Without knowledge and understanding of what is relevant to practice - there is no practice.
    This - is irrelevant.

    I mean, explain to me how this enhances your own practice and improve it, specifically?
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited November 2011
    I am talking about asking questions and wanting to know the answers, not just scientific questions but any question that intrigues a person. With regard to practice, how is one meant to practice Buddhas teachings when one does not have an ounce of curiosity/care about Buddhas teachings, is it not through being curious about Dharma, being intrigued by Dharma, wanting to ask questions and get answers about Dharma, that one gains knowledge and understanding of Dharma, and hence that one can practice Dharma to the fullest ?

    As I have said in my opinion no matter if it is scientific, Buddhists or any other subject; its good to be inquisitive, its good to ask questions, its good to care. Its the only way we can learn and evolve our knowledge and understanding.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    With regard to practice, you're right.
    With regard to other stuff, it pays to know what is relevant to practice and supportive of progress, and what is just inquisitiveness on a simply personal basis.
    I'm not suggesting you're either right or wrong. I am suggesting you discern what is fruitful, and what is a waste of time.
    Discussing the possibility of there once having been more than one moon - is a waste of time.
    In my opinion.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited November 2011
    Well I will agree to disagree with you on this one :rolleyes:
  • MindGateMindGate United States Veteran
    Water on mars? Who cares?
    Age of the earth? Who cares?
    Dinosaurs? Who cares?
    Evolution? Who cares?
    Stars and interplanetary objects? Who cares?

    Psssh, silly scientists. :p
  • DandelionDandelion London Veteran
    Moon(s) rock! And, they currently have some on display at The Science Museum, London. I keep meaning to go and see it. I don't think Buddha would mind! :-D
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Well I will agree to disagree with you on this one :rolleyes:
    Tell me where I am incorrect. Quoter passages from the suttas, to back you up. That would be helpful.

  • @federica, if you do not care about how many moons the earth has, then that is up to you (though I do wonder why you commented on this thread if that were really the case). But if your trying to tell me that asking scientific questions is somehow a waste of time and unBuddhist, then I completely disagree. Let me give you an example, Buddhism asks us to embark on the impartial investigation of Nature. Science asks the same questions, it only goes about getting the answers in a different way.

    Science asks fundamental questions about the nature of the universe, why things are the way they are, and tries to explain this. By understanding little bits of the jigsaw, such as how the earth evolved, allows us to put these jigsaw pieces together and hence allows us to see the bigger picture, and answer the bigger questions such as how we got here and how things will evolve in the future. To play ignorant to these questions, and hide from the answers, citing who cares, or it has nothing to do with practice, in my opinion would be a terrible waste of the opportunity that humans have to be able to answer these fundamental questions and unlock the secrets of the universe. Therefore, I am glad that not everyone thinks like you; no offense intended.
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