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Universal Self
sinewaves
Explorer
What is meant by this phrase?
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Answers answer answers...
Also federica the eraser would be an 'adjuct expendable effacing nodule'
may these scribbles help inspire you to investigate deeply and lovingly;
i'm not enlightened, but essentially if you consider that every being wants to be free of anguish, then there is more or less a natural inclination of all the beings in the universe..
on top of this, the environment of a being and the being "themselves" are inseparable, forming smooth continuity of information in the ultimate
we all possess the nature of a buddha, it simply needs the right conditions to manifest, and the more you study, reflect, and meditate on the topics of the dharma, you'll be able to see more and more experiences in the above way
so universal self might be something like a combination of the above nodes
it's a very healthy approach: we are all part of an inseparable fabric, in your heart beats the heart of every being, and so on for each person (human people, dog people, cat people, bug people, algae people, in the early scriptures they list various beings by their origins/births (born of a womb, born of moisture, etc. )) .. it is true for every "individual" [from the relative perspective]
meeting more people and trying to find common ground with them on the most basic of levels can help scrub this lens clean
life is wild,
give your mind an idea
and let your natural creativity settle with it
the flower blooms within you
I respect Soto and the quotes of uchiyama in this article I find very interesting.
tricycle.com/reviews/opening-hand-thought
Here is a quote from the book:
"What comes before you boil it up
Or fry it up by thinking
What precedes any processing by thought -
The very quick of life, that is jiko (universal self)
Since human thought continually cooks up everything, it is already removed from what is raw and fresh. Truly living out one's life, that is universal self, the self that is wholly itself."
"Universal self is a way to try to include all the actual reality of life, and what I am saying is that the actual reality of life is not something separate from the actual reality of your own life.
I think what is essentially being put across is that the universal self is a reference to living out the reality of the life of the self, without the I. I could be wrong.
"No-I" and "I" are entwined in duality and it could be no other way.
The universe itself, which we are all just reflections of.
If something can have an opposite then it is not beyond duality by any means.
I like this methodology of his. This looks likr, to me, the rare correct responsible use of the immediacy teaching. I tend to heavily shy people away from the 'just now', because it is so easily turned into a lump of clay rather than the dynamic forge it is meant to be. Despite appearances, a huge amount of willpower and energy is required for this to bring about this awareness.
Ok, so with this context I think the term can be used in place of 'universal mind', while not exactly synonymous. In ancient texts, universal mind refers to a the mind which is deep and not isolated to the individual..like a mind (or self) which isn't subject to change by surface elements...it is the fundamental agreement which sets the boundaries in which our individual minds (or selves) exist.
I believe that what he's saying is that we can become aware of this universal self/mind directly through perception of the ' reality of the present', or present awareness. This is very powerful, but we absolutely cannot afford this turning into philosophical mire or laziness. Rather, we should see it as a visceral window in the the fundamental of non individual self/mind...something which is the very foundation of what we know as reality. This is inherently very useful, as it expands the definition of self, diminishes the reign of the self/mind that is subject to turbity, gross selfishness and circumstances.
Now, about to no self issue that others here have brought up, in ancient texts they say time and again that this universal mind/self is ultimately just as uniformly empty as surface self/mind.
I agree with this completely, but I also think that this understanding of universal self(mind) is critical to ascertain if we want to understand the principle of emptiness as deeply and fundamentally as we should.
So what hes bringing attention to is that we can perceive and access deeper more fundamental states of self (mind) by being very persistent in analyzing the present reality. He's saying that this deep deep self (mind) is readily accessible in every moment..it pervades everything..and that with discipline and practice we can experience it directly.
As seeker brought up, we could see this as an intermediate step to no-self..I think that rather it fosters an understanding of just how profound no-self really is...and without this knowledge 'no-self' doctrine is limted at best and becomes little more than an encouragement to be less selfish and driven by material gain. We can see symptoms of this lack of understanding in teachers who exhibit a 'why do anything, why talk about anything' mentality. Hakuin was very emphatic about countering this entropy, and checking teachers who turn 'here and now awareness' methodology in to a black hole of entropy. It is a common occurance among those who study zazen for long periods and never see past that surface mind...they honestly think that the goal is calmness and stasis whole endeavour of teaching becomes just 'who can say "shut up" loudest and most effectively.'
Sinewaves, it is a very good sign that you are seeking to identify terms like this.. never be afraid to do so. I'd always be suspicious of those who discourage scrutiny. Calm, deliberate analysis is an essential vehicle of all developing enlightenment, as it was for all buddhas.
Would it be possible for you to re-iterate what you said in relation to what the "universal mind" is and also how we can become aware of it?
Many thanks.
"As a matter of fact, our basic state is already the Buddha Mind, so what is necessary is to let go of the present thought and not create or fabricate anything."
@sinewaves just a friendly reminder that the teachings are meant to be experientially realized, so like tasting ice cream instead of just looking at pictures and reading instruction manuals on how to hold a cone, etc. that said, it's super good to polish understanding and mental acuity.
so yeah, sit sometimes and let breathing happen ^.^
There is quite a bit more on this in the sutra.. but basically i think this term 'universal mind' (alaya-vijnana) is pretty close to interchangeable with 'universal self', since reality is ultimately mind.
I find this very interesting. He is basically saying that thought emerging from the biased point of view of 'self' is a filter existing as sort of an overlay on 'actual reality'. Kind of like saying,perspective on reality is vastly smaller and limited when perceived from the biased perspective of self...and then he reminds us that this larger perspective is always there whether we come to realize it or not. I actually like this a lot.
I think this is basically correct. I'd say based on your uchiyama section that i just quoted, i'd offer: the universal self exists in the background behind the filters and limitations of the smaller self. (and i might add the suggestion that it is a more of a spectrum rather than a clear separation of universal self and the "I" perspective. )
And if we take this path a little further we see that any other descriptions about him also ultimately fail to describe reality, even to the point that calling him real, or existent, or non-existent, is essentially as inaccurate saying that he is one of two opposite Jeffreys.
From the Sutra of Innumerable Meanings, (part one of the Threefold Lotus Sutra)
"Good Sons, there is one doctrine which makes Bodhisattvas attain perfect enlightenment quickly. If a Bodhisattva learns this doctrine, then he will accomplish perfect enlightenment.”
“World Honored One! What is this doctrine called? What is it’s meaning? How does the Bodhisattva practice it?”
The Buddha said “Good Sons! This one doctrine is called the doctrine of Innumerable Meanings. A Bodhisattva, If he wants to learn and master the doctrine the doctrine of Innumerable Meanings, should observe that all things were originally, will be, and are in themselves void in nature and form; They are Neither great nor small, Neither appearing nor disappearing, Neither fixed or movable, and neither advancing nor retreating; they are non dualistic, just emptiness. All living beings, however, discriminate falsely: “It is this” or “it is that”, and “It is advantageous” or “It is disadvantageous”; they entertain evil thoughts, make various evil karmas, and thus transmigrate within the six realms of existence; and they suffer all manner of miseries. "
"Hence the Sutras tell us to move without moving, to travel without traveling, to see without seeing, to laugh without laughing, to hear without hearing, to know without knowing, to be happy, without being happy, to walk without walking, to stand without standing. And the sutras say, "Go beyond language. Go beyond thought." ~Bodhidharma
You could add "Keep no I, without keeping "No I". But if one does not "go beyond language, go beyond thought" then one will never understand the "keeping of no keeping, the walking of no walking, the seeing of no seeing", etc.
The true "no I" that is "beyond thought", that is nondual, involves neither "I" nor "no I". Conception of "No I" don't exist within "no I" Why? Because it's beyond thought, beyond words, beyond ideas, beyond conceptions of "I" or "no I". Nondualiity is beyond conceptions of duality and beyond conceptions of nondualilty.
In other words, nonduality is not nonduality, it's nonduality.
There is no opposite to emptiness if everything is empty. But if everything is emptiness then there is no emptiness either and there is no non-emptiness. Within true emptiness, there is neither emptiness nor non-emptiness. Within true "no I" there is neither "I" nor "no I".
There is just the sun and the moon rising and setting. The green grass growing when it rains, or an oak tree in the courtyard. It can't when it still being conceptualized. Hence the advice to "Go beyond thought"
"Just be without mind and stop your thinking. Just be of that Mind where there is no existence or non-existence, no long and no short, no self and no others, neither negative nor positive, and neither within nor without. " ~Huang-po
It's the place of "no making". No making "I" and no making "no I". And of course, if there is no "I making" then there can be any I either, hence the conventional term of "no I". The solution is to stop making "I" and to stop making "no I". "No I" is merely a figure of speech, not some conceptual invention.
"No I" is possible when you are not making "I" and not making "no I".
:om:
I have only reached this state during walking meditation.
How could one not be there but remember how it felt? The distinction was not there but no thing disappeared by losing the border. In true emptiness there is form but form is change and so empty.
And everything in between in one flowing tapestry of emptiness being form and form being emptiness. Sure, but it never lasts. Sooner or later we have to pee. Then we try to explain it in words that fail by their own nature.
It is almost the job of words to fail description... Logical over-ride.
I found a good explanation on the the zen site:
"My teacher Kosho Uchiyama Roshi called this mind "the reality of our life." As the reality of our life, we are connected with all beings. Or, the reality of our life is before the separation of self (subject) and others (objects). We separate our self from others by discriminative thinking, when we "open the hand of thought"(or release our discriminating views), we are right in the network of interdependent origination. We are connected with everything. Uchiyama Roshi called this oneness of self and all things "original self" or "universal self."
Would this be along the lines of your interpretation, Ocean?
When Uchiyama outlines that we are connected with everything, is he referring to the fact nothing exists in absolute independence? Is he saying that every person on this planet is connected?
Opening the hand of thought is a very clever and accurate version of the saying, 'detatch from thought'. Opening the hand is a perfect way to put it, because it eliminates a lot of the misunderstandings that may go along with other phrases like 'detach from thought'.
The hand and the object it grasps are neutral..yet the grasp on objects is tangible and firm. Exactly as thought and conceptualization are neutral and yet grasp firmly upon objects.
When he speaks of interconnection, really it is something you should experience! Think along the lines of trying to get a larger, more universal perspective during meditation. Try to loosen the tethers of thinking through the filters of your self. Think outside of yourself!
Also,Thanks for bringing uchiyama to my attention!
When applying that adjective to "self", only ignorance's cause comes to mind.
I don't see that phrase used in Buddhism because of how easily it could be seductively misconstrued by the Ego to deify itself.
Again I cannot understate that lower self/mind and higher self/mind are best seen as a spectrum, as expressed in the ocean similie in the lankavatara selection that I posted up there.
This difficulty I think is about identification. For some, the ego is a construct to be worriedly defined correctly or incorrectly, where as my practice is to simply not feed it.
The involvement in ego's higher, lower or neutral values are of little importance when experiencing how easily the Ego can dissipate when not actively pandering to the innate conditioning that supports it.
A trap is just where ever we stop experiencing the fluidity of our existence. Moving in and out of traps is a good description of a practice. The limit of a practice is simply us trying to control our entry & exits from said traps.
Time and space may only be conceptual tools of the animal (including nonmammalian) brain as has evolved on Planet Earth. Time and space may be no more 'real' than the letters of the alphabet, but they are damn useful.
Gassho
We can stop putting labels on things when we realize how futile they are (in this context). This includes the label of “One Mind” or “Universal Self” or “one all-inclusive Dharma”.
The language is used as a finger pointing at the moon. To see the moon, you have to take your eyes off the finger.