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Gods, spirits, and all that jazz.
If Buddhism is atheistic, why so much talk about ghosts, realms, spirits, deities, gods, or other supernatural entities? I guess rebirth is stretching it for me, but I sort of understand the logic underlying the concept.
What sparked this question was a reply on the thread http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5077, from Jinzang. I feel like traditions and silly superstitions begin to take away from the heart of the practice. Am I out of line here?
What sparked this question was a reply on the thread http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5077, from Jinzang. I feel like traditions and silly superstitions begin to take away from the heart of the practice. Am I out of line here?
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Comments
Thanks
Is Buddhism athestic?
No, Buddhism does not go about pronouncing that there is no god.
Is Buddhism theistic?
No, Buddhism does not concern itself with a personal-creator God found in the theistic religions.
Is Buddhism a religion?
Some people prefer not to call Buddhism a religion; they simply see it as Buddha-dharma, which means the truth seen and experienced by the Buddha. Buddhism is a spiritual path. It is a teaching and a way of practice.
Others may prefer to call it a religion, but a non-theistic religion that is not concerned with a personal-creator God.
What about Deities in Buddhism?
Read this or google for more topics on Buddhist Deities.
These are cultural aspects of Buddhism that were around long before the Buddha. Some people take them literally, some metaphorically and some not at all. Its pretty much the same Dharma either way.
Stretch it pull it break it twist it try to refute and if you cant the theory must be one that stand strong for you.
Meh... we cant know how much those "silly superstitions" were added after the Buddha's death. I think you are very not out of line to question them.
Question everything!:)
Mat
These concepts do not exist in Theravada Buddhism, as a whole.
i'm glad you said 'rebirth' as opposed to 'reincarnation'... There are many aspects to viewing re-birth, including the famous "You cannot look at the same river twice"... that is to say, no matter how much you might think you are, you're not the same person you were yesterday.... nor will you be the same tomorrow. You're in a constant state of flux..... who can honestly say this will stop when you die? As Voltaire famously said: "It should be no more surprising to be born twice, as it was to be born once."....
Simple.
If it feels good, do it. When in doubt, don't.
That's a pretty good premise to carry with you always, in all ways.
From the verses of Sharing and Aspiration I chanted daily (Theravada).
"Through the goodness that arises from my practice,
May the highest gods and evil forces;
Celestial beings,
guardian spirits of the Earth and the Lord of Death;
May those who are friendly, indifferent or hostile;
May all beings receive the blessings of my life."
These concepts most certainly do exist in Theravada, but like Buddhism as a whole they are not the point. The account of the Buddha's Enlightenment is full of magical entities. There are many Theravadins who literally believe in the various heavens and hells with various inhabitants, Pretas and so forth. It isnt just cultural, it's part and parcel of traditional Theravada that is ignored by Western students.
In Thailand part of the power of meditating in a cemetary for instance is derived from a common belief in Pretas. Zen in the west with the exception of Avalokateshvara, (understood as a purely symbolic ) is devoid of Gods, and magical thinking is seen as a dangerous sidetrack, but again in Asia it's often a different story. In my expereince the least magical forms of Buddha Dharma are stripped down western Vipassana, and stripped down western Zen. But these are not representative of Buddhism as a whole.
Tibetan Buddhism is much more linked to that idea than others because it sometimes mixes up with Bon. Chöd, for example, is a practice where you offer your body for the spirits to do whatever they want. :-P But that is an extreme example.
There are whole books written on separating Buddhism from cultural influences. If my memory doesn't fail me "Buddhism is not what you think" and "The Naked Buddha" are some examples.
Gotta agree with mah man Richard. The Pali suttas are chockful of references to such things. Now, whether or not a practitioner takes them literally, figurately, or chucks them out the window entirely, depends... but the concepts most certainly do exist in Theravada.
Let's just say I find that they don't hold as much prominence and veneration as one might see in Tibetan (Mahayana) Buddhism. That is to say, whilst the likes of Avalokitesvara, Tara, the Blue Medicine Buddha and Yama, for example, are pretty much in daily evidence, Theravada does not make as much of such matters....
I do agree there are devas and such, but they don't feature as prominently - or as quotidian deities to whom one dedicates mantras - as in Tibetan Buddhism.
As this is the beginners forum, I was trying to keep it basic and simple.
Not that corrections aren't accepted, where corrections are due.
I was merely trying to 'simplify'.
The problem is different definitions for these. When Buddhism speaks of devas (gods) or hungry ghosts, etc., it is speaking of existence on different spiritual planes. Unlike the "gods" of the Greek pantheon, or the one God of Judaism/Christianity/Islam, the gods/deities/devas of Buddhism have no power on our plane of existence. It is said that contact can be made, and that's about it.
This is from What Buddhists Believe by Dr. K. Sri Dhammanada, freely avaliable at Buuddhanet.