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life and zen

misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a HinduIndia Veteran
hi all,

i was reading various commentaries and dhamma talks on zen on the internet. so thought of writing this post to share with you all.

zen seems to be a cool way to live life. it takes the life to its smallest unit, a moment, which itself cannot be grasped. it says to live life fully in every moment. the method it says to do is to neither grasp nor reject anything - so no doing, rather just being in every moment.

life is like a journey - with emphasis not on destination, rather than on journey itself. our body and our mind both are not in our control, so in a way nothing is in our control. yet we live life by always trying to control it. i think this is because of the fear, which is deep down inside us - one of the most deepest fears being our death. so nothing is in our control - but still we have the choice of choosing between skillful and unskillful.

dogen said - we are time-being, meaning, time is self and self is time. everything is included in the present moment and it is complete in and of itself - yet there is no past and no future - because there is no present to grab hold of even. our awareness just experiences in the current moment, and so without our awareness, there is nothing as time.

dogen said - samsara and nirvana both are here right at this moment. dogen said - it is like one leg is right view of our basic nature and the other leg is the deluded view of samsara, it is up to us with which leg we move forward in the present moment.

suzuki roshi said - it is 'not always so'. what is right now, may not be right later - there is nothing inherently right and nothing inherently wrong - so we should be open to everything and be ready to accept whatever arises in this moment.

moreover, dogen said - practice-enlightenment, meaning - practice is enlightenment and enlightenment is practice. there is nothing outside of practice which can be enlightenment and there is no practice outside enlightenment. so whatever we do, we are practicing - but how we practice - either through our biases or not - is what matters. so this makes it both easy and difficult - easy in the sense, enlightenment is always available and difficult in the sense that it makes it a life long practice till we die, it is not the case that this moment enlightenment is realized and next moment we can be careless, rather it is the continuous being of fully present in the moment through out our life.

so this makes life - a journey, which we cannot really control, so it gives us a freedom that we can let go on a conventional level, because on the first hand we did not really possessed anything, so there is nothing we can let go of - but since conventionally we thought we possessed things, so we can let go of those things and be relieved of the burden to make everything right.

i am a completely ignorant person, with all the defilements of lust, anger, greed, attachment, hatred and pride in me, so obviously i cannot say the above statements, but whatever is typed above are those statements which i have read on internet in zen commentaries and on thinking, they seemed nice to me, so thought of sharing the above statements with you all. if you have read till now, thanks for taking your time in reading this post.

metta to all sentient beings.
Jeffreyseeker242pegembaraCinorjer

Comments

  • Stay ignorant, enlightenment does not exist. :)
    Cinorjer
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    wondering said:

    Stay ignorant, enlightenment does not exist. :)

    If you are ignorant of enlightenment what you say is ignorant.
    If you are enlightened you would not advise ignorance.

    The Buddha did not.

    So why have you said this?

    :scratch:
  • Because it is truth. No one knows the truth. We are all permanently ignorant. Once you realize this you become an open human being and compassionate to all.
    lobsterGui
  • howhow Veteran
    edited June 2013
    @misecmisc1
    The practise you mention is done, moment by moment, by folks no more or less, special than yourself.
    Whatever efforts you can muster to manifest any of your posting is a freedom to be experienced that you might otherwise never find.
    Enlightenment can never be fully understood for the only thing thinking that enlightenment is just an understanding, is the self.
    The absence of self is enlightenment.
    If enlightenment is the sweeping out of a room, masticating about it is not it.

    And from now on I think we should take on an oath to chew a bar of soap if any of us use the "E" word again.
    mfranzdorf
  • You are like the grass growing -- No more, No less.
  • We are like grass which can elaborately model our environments and grow in directions which bring greater peace and harmony to the world. That would be some pretty damn scary grass, probably the distant hippy cousins of the triffids. :)
    Invincible_summerCitta
  • I'd like to offer something to help you, but in Zen we don't have a single thing!
  • That's OK, I've got lots of help in the Dharma.
    Invincible_summer
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran



    i am a completely ignorant person

    Bullshit! :D
    Cinorjer
  • lobsterlobster Veteran
    wondering said:

    Because it is truth. No one knows the truth. We are all permanently ignorant. Once you realize this you become an open human being and compassionate to all.

    True enough.

    Also unskilful?
    A stated truth can be a lie if some hear something else, as we know. No Truth can be stated only things that are true. So who is the One that knows? Do you add wisdom to your 'permanent ignorance'? Does that too change?
    How open and compassionate are you to my, your and others impermanence? 'Realise this'? Another lie?


    riverflow
  • All excuses....more meandering words that go in circles......it is very easy to admit that no one knows what this universe is about...( ignorance ). Why is so hard for so called Buddhist's to admit it?
  • I had to refill my bird feeder today. Those red wing blackbirds are bullies.
    My son rode his bike today without training wheels. That made me smile.

    My step-mother is dying, and this is making my father weep for her. These are truths.....my truths. Other than that....... ignorance? I'm not sure.
    lobsterriverflowCinorjer
  • You asking the question? Of course it is ignorance. You do not know why and how these things are happening to you. But, you sound like you pay attention to what is going on around you with compassion. Who can ask for more.....:)
  • robotrobot Veteran
    wondering said:

    You asking the question? Of course it is ignorance. You do not know why and how these things are happening to you. But, you sound like you pay attention to what is going on around you with compassion. Who can ask for more.....:)

    He is paying attention with compassion. That is wisdom. It's the opposite of ignorance.
    That is the path to knowing what is happening to you and taking skillful actions. No?
    riverflow
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    I had to refill my bird feeder today. Those red wing blackbirds are bullies.
    My son rode his bike today without training wheels. That made me smile.

    My step-mother is dying, and this is making my father weep for her. These are truths.....my truths. Other than that....... ignorance? I'm not sure.

    :wave:
    We smile, we weep. The bird feeder refills.

    Today I wept over a film on Iplayer
    'My Afternoons with Magueritte'

    . . . there is nothing other than that for sure . . .
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Our laundry gets done by a ghost. Who are we?
  • CheChe Veteran
    Students at a very exclusive boarding school? :D
    lobster
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited June 2013
    wondering said:

    Stay ignorant, enlightenment does not exist. :)

    my thinking says: if enlightenment does not exist, then ignorance does not exist too and vice versa. if ignorance exists, then enlightenment exists and vice versa.
    pegembaraJeffrey
  • misecmisc1misecmisc1 I am a Hindu India Veteran
    edited June 2013
    how said:

    And from now on I think we should take on an oath to chew a bar of soap if any of us use the "E" word again.

    wondering said:

    Stay ignorant, enlightenment does not exist. :)

    my thinking says: if enlightenment does not exist, then ignorance does not exist too and vice versa. if ignorance exists, then enlightenment exists and vice versa.
    Oops!! i used the E word 2 times above, don't know what @how will say me to chew now :-/
  • So let go, put everything down, everything except the knowing. Don't be fooled if visions or sounds arise in your mind during meditation. Put them all down. Don't take hold of anything at all. Just stay with this non-dual awareness. Don't worry about the past or the future, just be still and you will reach the place where there's no advancing, no retreating and no stopping, where there's nothing to grasp at or cling to. Why? Because there's no self, no "me" or "mine." It's all gone. The Buddha taught us to be emptied of everything in this way, not to carry anything with us. To know, and having known, let go.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/bl111.html
    moreover, dogen said - practice-enlightenment, meaning - practice is enlightenment and enlightenment is practice. there is nothing outside of practice which can be enlightenment and there is no practice outside enlightenment. so whatever we do, we are practicing - but how we practice - either through our biases or not - is what matters. so this makes it both easy and difficult - easy in the sense, enlightenment is always available and difficult in the sense that it makes it a life long practice till we die, it is not the case that this moment enlightenment is realized and next moment we can be careless, rather it is the continuous being of fully present in the moment through out our life.
    Mindfulness is the path to the deathless. Heedlessness is the path to death. The mindful do not die;. But the heedless are as if dead already. Dhammapada
    misecmisc1Jeffrey
  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    wondering said:

    All excuses....more meandering words that go in circles......it is very easy to admit that no one knows what this universe is about...( ignorance ). Why is so hard for so called Buddhist's to admit it?

    In this case, it ought to be easy for you to admit that you have no idea whether what you're saying here is true. So you don't need to be so pessimistic.
  • GuiGui Veteran
    Knowing and not knowing exist only in the mind. The answer, to me, is to experience life while realizing that to always think about that experience is living in a dream. I am doing no thing.
    riverflow
  • robot said:

    wondering said:

    You asking the question? Of course it is ignorance. You do not know why and how these things are happening to you. But, you sound like you pay attention to what is going on around you with compassion. Who can ask for more.....:)

    He is paying attention with compassion. That is wisdom. It's the opposite of ignorance.
    That is the path to knowing what is happening to you and taking skillful actions. No?
    No, he is truthful about his "not knowing".....having pat answers in some Buddhist ancient language. He can live honestly with ignorance which brings great compassion.

    mfranzdorf
  • Florian said:

    wondering said:

    All excuses....more meandering words that go in circles......it is very easy to admit that no one knows what this universe is about...( ignorance ). Why is so hard for so called Buddhist's to admit it?

    In this case, it ought to be easy for you to admit that you have no idea whether what you're saying here is true. So you don't need to be so pessimistic.
    Wouldn't that be a easy way out for everyone....no, it is not that "I know"....it is just the truth....and most people can not live with it...they want to act like they know what the Buddha taught, or what the United States is all about. Flimsy trap you tried to set, but it is made with straw. :)

  • FlorianFlorian Veteran
    It wasn't a trap. Just an observation. I'm not sure how you can propose that something is a truth while saying you don't know that it is a truth. I feel you have painted yourself into a corner.
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