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Do rare illnesses have anything to do with karma?

jlljll Veteran
edited September 2013 in General Banter
This woman is 28 yrs old.
She became old after giving birth to her child.
Doctors have no idea why.imageimage<img

Comments

  • For those who think I may be lying,
    here is the video where she was interviewed.
    too bad its not in english.


  • VastmindVastmind Memphis, TN Veteran
    edited September 2013
    "Does rare illnesses have anything to do with karma?"

    I don't know.
    What do YOU think?
    oceancaldera207
  • jll said:

    For those who think I may be lying,
    here is the video where she was interviewed.
    too bad its not in english.



    It's impossible to think anything about the video or your question when I can't understand the language. She could be 28 or 58.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    That would be the old-world view of karma.
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran
    Whether an illness is rare or common, of what value is it to add weight to the immediate problem (the disease) by chattering about karma?
  • ok, your doubts are understandable.
    she was interviewed on a tv program in china.
    the program is called 'Date with Lu Yu"
    its china's version of the oprah show.

    she, the host, made an appearance on oprah once.

    robot said:

    jll said:

    For those who think I may be lying,
    here is the video where she was interviewed.
    too bad its not in english.



    It's impossible to think anything about the video or your question when I can't understand the language. She could be 28 or 58.
  • this is her picture before she gave birth.
    she did not become old overnight.
    the process took 1 year.


    image
  • It's useful to think of your own hardships as karma. It can avoid the sort of anger that Christians have when a child or whatever is killed and they blame God. So if you believe your hardships are karma then you are in control because you can apply awareness tactics to the hardship. I'm not just blowing smoke out my butt because I have schizophrenia and this is what I do.

    But it is inappropriate to tell others that there illness or rape or whatever was karma. That's related to Buddhas teaching of right speach. It might be true but it is not benevolent or beneficial (to a non-Buddhist). It is also harsh speach because it is upsetting.
    oceancaldera207lobstertitania

  • I think if we get into thinking that everything is due to Karma of one sort of another, there is the tendency to then 'blame' the victim.
    Do people get cancer because of bad karma from past lives? Do children get born with horrible disfigurements or mental deficiencies because they accumulated bad karma?
    If we are to blame "karma" for diseases, any diseases, then we are saying in essence that the person 'deserves it'... that they are paying the price for something awful in another life, etc.
    I prefer not to believe that. I would file that kind of belief under "superstition".

    Good things happen to both 'good' and 'bad' people. Bad things also happen to good and bad people. I don't think Karma is a means of micro-managing every aspect of everyone's life on a day to day basis....
    titania
  • oceancaldera207oceancaldera207 Veteran
    edited September 2013
    I think its a reaaallly bad idea to speculate about other beings specific karmic path. When you see negative things that happen to you as the result of past karma, this can be a growth experience. And even then, hypothesizing specific karmic links is not practical or important. Knowing just 'generally' is enough.
    titania
  • Jeffrey said:

    It's useful to think of your own hardships as karma. It can avoid the sort of anger that Christians have when a child or whatever is killed and they blame God. So if you believe your hardships are karma then you are in control because you can apply awareness tactics to the hardship. I'm not just blowing smoke out my butt because I have schizophrenia and this is what I do.

    But it is inappropriate to tell others that there illness or rape or whatever was karma. That's related to Buddhas teaching of right speach. It might be true but it is not benevolent or beneficial (to a non-Buddhist). It is also harsh speach because it is upsetting.

    This is absolutely right, and furthermore some or what we see as 'negative' may be just an opportunity to experience or learn in a different way.
    lobster
  • Can I conclude that the consensus
    is karma has nothing to do with her condition
    bcos it would be too awful too blame her for
    her plight?

    MaryAnne said:


    I think if we get into thinking that everything is due to Karma of one sort of another, there is the tendency to then 'blame' the victim.
    Do people get cancer because of bad karma from past lives? Do children get born with horrible disfigurements or mental deficiencies because they accumulated bad karma?
    If we are to blame "karma" for diseases, any diseases, then we are saying in essence that the person 'deserves it'... that they are paying the price for something awful in another life, etc.
    I prefer not to believe that. I would file that kind of belief under "superstition".

    Good things happen to both 'good' and 'bad' people. Bad things also happen to good and bad people. I don't think Karma is a means of micro-managing every aspect of everyone's life on a day to day basis....

  • jll said:

    Can I conclude that the consensus
    is karma has nothing to do with her condition
    bcos it would be too awful too blame her for
    her plight?



    MaryAnne said:


    I think if we get into thinking that everything is due to Karma of one sort of another, there is the tendency to then 'blame' the victim.
    Do people get cancer because of bad karma from past lives? Do children get born with horrible disfigurements or mental deficiencies because they accumulated bad karma?
    If we are to blame "karma" for diseases, any diseases, then we are saying in essence that the person 'deserves it'... that they are paying the price for something awful in another life, etc.
    I prefer not to believe that. I would file that kind of belief under "superstition".

    Good things happen to both 'good' and 'bad' people. Bad things also happen to good and bad people. I don't think Karma is a means of micro-managing every aspect of everyone's life on a day to day basis....



    Do you speak Chinese? Please interpret the video for me.
    What has she done? Did she take drugs or drink while pregnant?
    No one with any sense would try to draw conclusions about her circumstances based on a video that they can't understand
  • I dont understand.
    If everything bad that happens has nothing
    to do with karma, then what is karma?

    Surely, there must be bad consequences for
    people who has accumulated bad karma.


    robot said:

    jll said:

    Can I conclude that the consensus
    is karma has nothing to do with her condition
    bcos it would be too awful too blame her for
    her plight?



    MaryAnne said:


    I think if we get into thinking that everything is due to Karma of one sort of another, there is the tendency to then 'blame' the victim.
    Do people get cancer because of bad karma from past lives? Do children get born with horrible disfigurements or mental deficiencies because they accumulated bad karma?
    If we are to blame "karma" for diseases, any diseases, then we are saying in essence that the person 'deserves it'... that they are paying the price for something awful in another life, etc.
    I prefer not to believe that. I would file that kind of belief under "superstition".

    Good things happen to both 'good' and 'bad' people. Bad things also happen to good and bad people. I don't think Karma is a means of micro-managing every aspect of everyone's life on a day to day basis....



    Do you speak Chinese? Please interpret the video for me.
    What has she done? Did she take drugs or drink while pregnant?
    No one with any sense would try to draw conclusions about her circumstances based on a video that they can't understand
  • robotrobot Veteran
    edited September 2013
    jll said:

    I dont understand.
    If everything bad that happens has nothing
    to do with karma, then what is karma?

    Surely, there must be bad consequences for
    people who has accumulated bad karma.

    Maybe so. But there is no way to prove that she did anything bad from the video that you posted.
    So what good can come from speculating about her evil actions?
    How can you tell that what has happened to her is bad, unless you can see the future?
  • perhaps buddha did not teach karma.
    maybe it was added in several hundred years
    after he died.


    if that were true, everyone would be much happier.
    robot said:

    jll said:

    I dont understand.
    If everything bad that happens has nothing
    to do with karma, then what is karma?

    Surely, there must be bad consequences for
    people who has accumulated bad karma.

    Maybe so. But there is no way to prove that she did anything bad from the video that you posted.
    So what good can come from speculating about her evil actions?
    How can you tell that what has happened to her is bad, unless you can see the future?
  • jll said:

    Can I conclude that the consensus
    is karma has nothing to do with her condition
    bcos it would be too awful too blame her for
    her plight?

    ...


    .........

    It cannot be known. If you give me a few days if I have time ill go into the archives and provide a good summary and analyisis of how the buddha responds to direct questions such as you ask here.
    Like I kind of suggested before, its not a good idea to try to identify the mechanics of the karmic process..for one, anything that you ascertain with limited information will be an incomplete picture. Just like anything else, a vast multitude of factors contribute to karmic process...vast but meaningful.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    "...its not a good idea to try to identify the mechanics of the karmic process..for one, anything that you ascertain with limited information will be an incomplete picture." ~ "The Lord works in mysterious ways."
    federicaMaryAnne
  • I'm a man (a man) without conviction,
    I'm a man (a man) who doesn't know
    How to sell (to sell) a contradiction.
    You come and go, you come and go.

    Karma karma karma karma karma chameleon,
    You come and go, you come and go.
    Loving would be easy if your colors were like my dreams,
    Red gold and green, red gold and green.
    Culture club

    some ideas of 'karma' in Kabbalah and Sufism contend that cause and effect sometimes transcend linear time - wow talk about 'spooky stuff at a distance' - Einstein style . . .
    - in other words a cause can come after the event . . .
  • In one of the Buddhist texts it is recorded that someone asked Buddha:

    Why are some women ugly-looking but rich?
    Why are some women beautiful but poor?
    Why are some people poor but with good health and long life?
    Why are some rich yet ill and short-lived?

    The Buddha's answers were:
    The woman who is ugly-looking but rich was.
    short-tempered in her past lives--easily irritated and angered but was
    also very generous and gave offerings to the Buddha, Dharma, and
    Sangha and offered things to many sentient beings.
    The woman who is beautiful but poor was, in her past lives, very
    kind, always smiling and softspoken, but was stingy and reluctant to
    make offerings or help other people.
    The person who is poor but in good health and enjoying a long
    life was in his or her past lives, very stingy or reluctant to make
    donations, but was kind to all sentient beings, did not harm or kill
    others, and also saved many other sentient beings' lives .
    The person who is rich but often ill, or who is short-lived, was,
    in his or her past lives,' very generous in helping others but loved
    hunting and killing and caused sentient beings to feel worried,
    insecure, and frightened.

  • You want: long life, health, beauty, power, riches, high birth, wisdom? Or even some of these things? They do not appear by chance. It is not someone's luck that they are healthy, or another's lack of it that he is stupid. Though it may not be clear to us now, all such inequalities among human beings (and all sorts of beings) come about because of the kamma they have made individually. Each person reaps his own fruits. So if one is touched by short life, sickliness, ugliness, insignificance, poverty, low birth or stupidity and one does not like these things, no need to just accept that that is the way it is. The future need not be like that provided that one makes the right kind of kamma now. Knowing what kamma to make and what not to make is the mark of a wise man. It is also the mark of one who is no longer drifting aimlessly but has some direction in life and some control over the sort of events that will occur.

    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.135.nymo.html
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    jll said:

    perhaps buddha did not teach karma.
    maybe it was added in several hundred years
    after he died.
    if that were true, everyone would be much happier.

    @jll, you're forgetting one important, fundamental and primary lesson the Buddha gave:

    To not fall into the trap of trying to figure it out at all.
    Remember the four Unconjecturables?
    The workings of Karma is one of them.

    We can sit here until we're blue in the face deciding whether her current life is a product of her Past Karma.
    We will never arrive at a sensible, definitive and exact conclusion.
    Possibly yes, perhaps, no, is the best anyone can offer.

    What happens does not matter.
    What we DO with what happens - matters.

    titaniaMaryAnne
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    jll said:

    Can I conclude that the consensus
    is karma has nothing to do with her condition
    bcos it would be too awful too blame her for
    her plight?

    No, you may not.
    jll said:

    I dont understand.
    If everything bad that happens has nothing
    to do with karma, then what is karma?

    Karma is volitional Action.
    Vipaka is the consequence.
    Surely, there must be bad consequences for
    people who has accumulated bad karma.
    That's your sense of justice speaking, not your rational knowledge.

    MaryAnnelobster
  • @hermitwin

    When I was studying sociology, the tutor lectured on the causes and nature of inequalities in society for almost two hours. It was clear that a situation arose for real reasons that were discernible and determined the life chances, health and other factors of existence. She asked for comments about the causes of poverty.
    Someone said without any sense of irony, 'I think it is an act of God!' The class and tutor laughed hysterically for several minutes, much to the chagrin of the student.
    Quoting ignorant bible tracts or sutra indoctrination from a simpler, more naive and ignorant time does not work for me. I am not glad it does for you. You are capable of a more developed understanding of karma. Being born or adopting fundamentalism is no substitute for finding a more realistic comprehension . . . though our 'karma' may decide differently . . .
    MaryAnne
  • It does not matter what she did in her past life.

    What our WE doing in our present life?
  • My own take on Karma is that it is our own "actions" in a cause and effect universe that leads to what we call Karma.
    The effects of the environment as well as the actions of a expecting mother, can effect the development of a growing baby in the womb, by triggering genes.
    So whether the Mother smokes, or drinks whilst she is pregnant, will effect the babies development, and so could likely lead to future ailments and disorders.
    The environment can also have an effect on the development of a baby in the womb, whether the mother can afford to eat a good diet, and whether she is not suffering domestic abuse and is given support when carrying a child.
    All these things can be considered actions and choices and therefore could be considered in essence as ones Karma, good or bad.
    I do not believe that people are born disabled due to any previous bad Karma in a previous life.
    If rebirth does indeed happen, the only karma trace we pass over to the next life, is our weakness for desires universally shared with all beings, and the potential for insight and enlightenment (awareness) and that is all.
    So all the Karma you are responsible for are the actions in the "here and now".
  • @jll said:
    perhaps buddha did not teach karma.
    The theory of Karma is a fundamental doctrine in Buddhism. Some people are born rich, beautiful or healthy while others are born poor, sick, ugly... Buddhism doesn't accept this inequality as pure accident.

    The Law of Karma is similar actions will lead to similar results. If we plant an orange seed, we will get the orange tree.

    Now, not all orange seeds can be grown into an orange tree. We need to give it the right environment, sun light, fertilizer and water... Same with Karma, we can change our fortunes or misfortunes.

    Karma is not just our past actions but is the combination of our own past actions and our own present doings. We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate.

    We cause our good or bad karma by our action, speech and thought.
    Karma is action, and Vipaka, fruit or result, is its reaction.
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    Yeah, we know.

    That wasn't the issue.
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    It could be.... Lipodystrophy
    This is a rare syndrome which causes a layer of fatty tissue beneath the surface of the skin to disintegrate while the skin itself continues to grow at a startling pace
    It has no cure and leaves victims with loose folds of skin on their bodies as well as wrinkled faces and features of people much hold.
    Only 2,000 people are thought to have the condition.

    Or it might be.... Cushing’s Syndrome
    This can be triggered if a person has very high levels of a hormone called cortisol in their blood.
    Common symptoms include weight gain, rounding of the face due to deposits of fat developing there and thinning of the skin.
    It often occurs as a side effect of treatment with corticosteroids.
    Women are five times more likely to develop endogenous Cushing’s syndrome than men, with most cases affecting people who are 25 to 40 years old.

    Or it might even be.... a hoax.
    people have done stranger things for money.....
  • TheEccentricTheEccentric South east, UK Veteran
    I thought that the Buddha denied the belief that everything you happens to you was from past karma (despite how so many Buddhist hold this view)?
  • If you steal, you may get yourself arrested and put into prison and in some places, may even get your hands chopped off - that probably is Karma. Your actions bring about some results. But in the case of the woman growing old after giving birth, there is no action on her part that could probably cause it, not unless the giving of birth trigger some hormonal change or whatever. Anyway, not everything is due to Karma. Some of the things just happen. Do we always need an explanation for things that happen?
    robotlobstertitania
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    footiam said:

    If you steal, you may get yourself arrested and put into prison and in some places, may even get your hands chopped off - that probably is Karma. Your actions bring about some results. But in the case of the woman growing old after giving birth, there is no action on her part that could probably cause it, not unless the giving of birth trigger some hormonal change or whatever. Anyway, not everything is due to Karma. Some of the things just happen. Do we always need an explanation for things that happen?

    As humans, the most common question asked when something bad happens is, "Why?"

  • vinlyn said:

    footiam said:

    If you steal, you may get yourself arrested and put into prison and in some places, may even get your hands chopped off - that probably is Karma. Your actions bring about some results. But in the case of the woman growing old after giving birth, there is no action on her part that could probably cause it, not unless the giving of birth trigger some hormonal change or whatever. Anyway, not everything is due to Karma. Some of the things just happen. Do we always need an explanation for things that happen?

    As humans, the most common question asked when something bad happens is, "Why?"

    That probably gives a lot of heartache.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    footiam said:

    ...

    As humans, the most common question asked when something bad happens is, "Why?"

    That probably gives a lot of heartache.

    Yup. That's true. But I recall a person who asked "why" for quite a few years of his life. Let's see...what was his name? Oh yes -- Siddhartha.

    oceancaldera207
  • TravellerTraveller East Midlands UK Veteran
    To paraphrase Ajahn Sumedho - Why? Because they were born. Free yourself from birth to free yourself from old age, sickness and death.
  • from huffington,

    Chinese Woman, 28, Who Looks Like 80-Year-Old, Has Plastic Surgery (PICTURES)


    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/23/chinese-woman-28-looks-old-plastic-surgery_n_2532346.html
    federica said:

    It could be.... Lipodystrophy
    This is a rare syndrome which causes a layer of fatty tissue beneath the surface of the skin to disintegrate while the skin itself continues to grow at a startling pace
    It has no cure and leaves victims with loose folds of skin on their bodies as well as wrinkled faces and features of people much hold.
    Only 2,000 people are thought to have the condition.

    Or it might be.... Cushing’s Syndrome
    This can be triggered if a person has very high levels of a hormone called cortisol in their blood.
    Common symptoms include weight gain, rounding of the face due to deposits of fat developing there and thinning of the skin.
    It often occurs as a side effect of treatment with corticosteroids.
    Women are five times more likely to develop endogenous Cushing’s syndrome than men, with most cases affecting people who are 25 to 40 years old.

    Or it might even be.... a hoax.
    people have done stranger things for money.....

  • I have a rare neurological `dis-ease`. Everyone faces different challenges in life. Whatever the reason,cause, to live with an `illness` we still have a choice. I am grateful for my life. I treasure it and feel blessed. I have much to give,despite dysfunctional bodily challenges. There is much to learn in any given situation. I do not think about my past life as the cause of my situation now. I think LIVE in the now and be open to growing. Love.
    lobsteroceancaldera207MaryAnne
  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    vinlyn said:

    footiam said:

    ...

    As humans, the most common question asked when something bad happens is, "Why?"

    That probably gives a lot of heartache.
    Yup. That's true. But I recall a person who asked "why" for quite a few years of his life. Let's see...what was his name? Oh yes -- Siddhartha.



    No.
    His first question was "What the.....?!"

    His next question was

    "HOW?"

    (..."To come to terms with this peaceably?")
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