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Meditation Needed to become Buddhist?
33_3
Veteran
I am getting quite confused and/or frustrated over not mediating or attending a Meditation/Buddhist Center.
In listening to a Darma Punx Webcast they were heavy on Medication. They said that Westerners meditate more than Eastern Buddhists. If I was to attend their center I would be imitated by them.
I study daily by reading Dahl Lama's teachings and taking a Buddhism DVD course (Malcom David Eckel) to help understand my readings.
Some days I feel I am making huge progress but after hearing "Our Buddhism" "Against The Stream" I had a hole in my chest. I was able to relax however.
Have I gone to far?
I have an inner sense that I was always a Buddhist destined to realization.
Thoughts?
Peace
1
Comments
Meditation is necessary for enlightenment. That is how the Buddha awakened. Study and meditation do not make you a Buddhist. Refuge defines a Buddhist.
Why are you so reluctant about meditation?
I think the main thing needed for being a Buddhist is compassion. How one comes by that compassion doesn't matter so much.
The Dalai Lama does a lot of meditation and prayers, as is described on his website.
The suttas make a point over and over again on meditation practice.
Meditation practice makes you more aware of your patterns of thinking, develops your insight, focuses your mind in the present moment, leads to the development of your equanimity by helping you observe your emotions with detachment.
Realization? Well, first things first.
You can't run before you can walk.
The Dalai Lama also says that Buddhism is a religion of kindness. I suppose some people need to do the meditation and resolve some ego-clinging issues before they can get to kindness. Some don't. But if you want to get to "realization", OP, meditation would be helpful.
"Meditation is a glitch in karma"
If that makes sense.
Thought is the self-maker. The way to realize that thoughts are not "you", that what you take yourself to be is not the case, is meditation. You can get an intellectual understanding and say "okay, I understand that...", but it's not the same. It's the difference between thinking about a loved one dying and actually experiencing it.
This doesn't mean you need to meditate a lot. How often you meditate is less important than the quality of the meditation; the mindset, meditating correctly, and not expecting instant enlightenment (or any immediate results).
Oh good. How?
Familiarisation with the path is primary. Meditation is the fast track. That is why monks are more likely to ideally have several daily sessions.
Rather than meditation, try quiet contemplation of one of the themes you have been studying.
Meditation as a 'thing' is much more than it's examples.
The point of doing a structured 'sit' is to begin to see your thoughts objectively, rather than riding them into the sunset. Like watching cars go by rather than jumping IN the cars and riding them.
When I began to 'get that', that I was not my thoughts, that they happened spontaneously, beyond my I control, I could literally 'see' them go past, kinda like clouds or cars. That teensy little objectiveness about thoughts naturally seeks to grow, so that you are talking with someone and just like in meditation, you are aware of your thoughts going by. Whoa! "Meditation" starts happening on the potty, in line at the bank, watching re-runs, posting on New Buddhist.
I too felt intimidated by meditation at first. I felt a lot of reluctance about it, you know, so I'm supposed to just SIT here quietly with whatever is going through my head. I'd rather do just about anything.
But when I actually said OK, I'M GONNA DO IT. Fifteen minutes, downloaded an on my phone to make a pleasant bowl chime. I was shocked, it went by quickly and was kinda nice. So I made it up to forty five minutes, which is about all I still can handle. Haven't tried longer for quite a while, hmmm.
I felt aversion to it that wasn't 'rewarded', let's say.
Just give it a whirl, fifteen minutes, and for goodness sake LET GO of all your preconceived notions, attitudes, 'what about . . .?' and just SIT
That's what I did and by golly it worked . . .
^^^ Don't fight it. Bite it.
That just might have some serious applications for nearly everything . . .
^^^ I blame the 'favourite dessert thread' for this insight . . .
When anyone has a problem -- as, let's say, suffering or uncertainty or unsatisfactoriness -- what is the first thing they do? Buddhists and non-Buddhists do precisely the same thing: When you have a problem and seek to solve it, the first thing you do is slow down, investigate the problem, and maintain a focused effort to make things less painful.
The practice of so-called Buddhism is like this ... slow things down. Take a look. Keep on looking. See what happens.
It's not just a state of oblivion.
It's the most rewarding thing you can do. It's natural once you get used to it
I have medical issues that will not allow me to at this time and I see a Dr. Also I cannot sit on the floor.
I am seeing a positive change in the way I think, feel and speak. If I cannot fit into the stated mold I will at least have the teachings The Buddha to live by.,,
Hard to explain what I experience. With the recent loss of my brother a lot is happening. Buddhism is showing me whatI may have known all along.
You don't need to sit on the floor. If you can sit still on a chair (breathing comfortably) and observe your breathing in-and-out, and not get attached to your thoughts or feelings (watch, don't "do"), you can meditate. In fact if you do so... you will be meditating!
I will try some meditation on my own... Thanks
You can meditate lying down. I did that for years, when I had a difficult medical condition. Lying down, your chakras are still aligned. Some people find it hard to stay awake, but if that's not a problem for you, then you have the option of meditating lying on your back.
Meditation, in fact, is a part of the whole package, and the practice of meditation does not get in the way of the development of bodhicitta. On the contrary.
http://www.tricycle.com/new-buddhism/-noble-eightfold-path/eightfold-path
(Walpola Rahula)
The Brahma Viharas (Loving-Kindness, Compassion, Joy and Equanimity) are a meditative practice, before they become a state of mind.
The Lojong and Tonglen trainings, which aim to develop bodhicitta, are also meditation practices.
You misunderstood me, @DhammaDragon. I said some people don't need meditation in order to practice compassion, while others may need to work on their kleshas before the bodhicitta can manifest.
And there are always the meditations aimed at increasing one's bodhicitta, which I left out of the discussion for the time being. My point was that some people may need to resolve their hate, jealousy, and other negative emotions before they can feel or express much kindness/compassion.
Okay, @Dakini.
The elaboration makes the comments clearer (to me, at least).
A beginner needs to understand that meditation is an integral part in the Buddhist recipe, whether they have any klesha issue to settle or not.
https://thebuddhistcentre.com/text/what-meditation
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda06.htm
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/burns/wheel088.html#goals
If you can get some face-to-face instruction or advice I would recommend it. Trying to learn meditation from books or the internet is not ideal.
To be perfectly clear if it hasn't been brought up, you don't need to meditate to be considered a Buddhist. There are Buddhists who don't meditate at all. There are others who chant. There are those who do both, or have other practices. Buddhism isn't one thing. Buddhists aren't one thing.
It's just recommended by many forms of Buddhism to meditate. It's part of the Noble Eightfold Path (i.e. "the Path").
There's something in Buddhism for everyone. Great, innit?
And you've been given alternatives that will allow you to.
You can sit in a chair, lay down, walk, and stand if sitting cross-legged on the floor doesn't work.
What other issues are there?
Toraldris, this was my impression on what I have been doing. It is not the lack of compassion or hatred that I need to address, it is the e decades of Christain guilt and fear that are in the way. It had gotten to the state of hallutionations of End Times in random settings. The dilegint studying is calming to the the crap in my head. Many fears of damnation or asking forgiveness or whatever are leaving. It is hard to not have ill feelings toward Christianity as a whole, but I practice secularism. I know there are similarities between Budhism and Chrisitianity or Hinduism and Budhism. Getting a better grasp on the timeline and development helps erase the My way or the Highway dogma of Christianity.
( sorry for the rant, wanted to Bette explain my relutency currently for any organized meditation )
That' makes things much clearer.
Study won't go too far with helping with the Christian baggage you're carrying. Practice will haelp you get past that. In fact, if you're prone to halucination I'd suggest that neither meditation of study will help with that. I'd recommend seeking professional help on that.
@Chaz , I have had such help for many years. Buddhism has taught me to embrace the occurrences which are no longer frightening. Leary however of a public setting if it gets too heavy I could not cope. I do takes meds which are slowly decreasing. I liken it to a bad acid trip and flash backs in certain situations triggered by perceived signs from God. Due to this I gave up all mind altering substances in 1977 and became sober May 2012.
Still sounds like (more?) professional help is needed.
End times. Christian baggage. Understood.
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End times. Christian baggage. Understood.
•You are doing fine. Most people are fuelled by head and heart crap. Sad but true.
•There is deep wisdom in aspects of gnostic and mystical Christianity, for now remember how Jesus summed up the whole of his message. Something about Love and forgiving . . . from what I remember.
•You have spent a lifetime accumulating crap. Give yourself time, patience and . . . a little kindness . . .
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Totally worth repeating! (*)
Yes, this is how I took the OP's question: "Is Meditation Needed To Become Buddhist". The answer is "no", you can be considered a Buddhist without meditating. Many Asian Buddhists believe that meditation, like taking vows, is for monks. Meditation is emphasized a lot more for Westerners, for some reason. You're not barred from joining the Buddhist club if you don't meditate, OP. The main thing is to follow the 4NT and the 8-fold Path, and practice a little compassion when the opportunity arises.
But the question, "Is Meditation Needed to Become Enlightened", ah, now that's a very different matter!
@lobster:From The Gospel of Buddha
Why should not Christians say with Prof. F. Max Müller: “If I do find in certain Buddhist works doctrines identically the same as in Christianity, so far from being frightened, I feel delighted, for surely truth is not the less true because it is believed by the majority of the human race.”