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Am Bailing from classes! Can you guys be my sanga?

newlotusnewlotus Australia Explorer

I’m Bailing out of my Buddhist class!

I tried, I really did. But I just don’t agree.

Sometimes you get sick. Sometimes you get a head ache or a cold. I don’t believe it has ANYTHING to do with Karma from a previous life. Pretty sure its just called being a living thing.
1 - a cold is caused by a virus
2 - a head ache is caused by sore muscles (or various other reasons)
3 - I don’t see how this is Karma!

I just really REALLY, do not agree nor can I ever agree with Karma from past lives. I just don’t think its constructive or helpful in any way at all.

What do you think about this though?
So negative Karma is brought on when we inflict suffering upon others.

My questions is this.
I work in HR. I have not had to yet, but at some point I will have to fire someone. This will inflict suffering upon them but I am only doing my job, and it would have a solid basis if this was to happen. Still, its inflicting suffering. Would this be bad Karma?

Anger
So anger is bad and we should always try to not be angry as its a bad thing and can create heavy negative Karma.
My view- Anger is an emotion. Like all other emotions it plays a part in telling you what you need and allows you to resolve it. Thus, you can’t cut out anger. Its a human emotion and I don’t see it bad at all. I think the actions one can take in anger are often not ideal which can lead to bad Karma, but thats not the actual emotion, thats the action.
In saying this. Some anger is not warranted. Say, the computer did not need to get yelled at when it shut down all of a sudden. But anger is also warranted. When someone hurts you, or someone gets murdered, anger is natural. This doesn’t mean we need to hang onto it and focus all our energy on it. But its there, its real, and I think thats ok.
So, I think its not the emotion ‘anger’ is how and what you do with that anger that is important and if you can meditate on it and let it go, or if you let it stew and take it out on others. That is when I think the negative Karma comes into it.

So. Thats it. I’m heading back to my good old books. I know its good to get a sense of community. But 2.5 hours on a work night, after I have been working hard all day. I would very much rather go home and read or play with my puppies. I don’t have much free time during the week. So I like to spend it wisely. Thus, staying home when its cold and reading in front of fire!

Comments

  • karastikarasti Breathing Minnesota Veteran

    The only karma I worry about is right now. What consequences do my actions, words and thoughts have, right now? What can I do to make things right that I did wrong yesterday? What can I do better today? I can't know whether past life karma is real or not. So I don't worry about it. Dukkha is the nature of human existence. It is not all due to karma from the past. I am grateful I have not run into such strict views with my teacher and Sangha. I would have a very difficult time of it, too. We focus on our practice right here, right now, and what we can do to be more present.

  • gracklegrackle Veteran

    There are many steps along the path. Many times it is better to walk on. If a particular interpretation of any part of the teaching disturbs you then seek further. A good teacher really knows how to speak to you from many different ways. To clear up confusion. If they can teach but one way its hard to have much confidence in them.

    personlobsternewlotus
  • personperson Where is my mind? 'Merica! Veteran

    I feel you, I've gone through similar emotions recently. What it comes down to me is the certainty that such teachings are given with.

    At the deepest level of the material world seems to be some sort of quantum randomness, some speculate that rather than randomness there is a hidden variable we're missing. So for myself, I can't really rule out the possibility that there is some sort of subtle cause that plays a part in what happens to people.

    However, there is no credible evidence showing that there is karma and all the reasons given usually boil down to some sort of appeal to authority of the scriptures and lineage. Most Buddhist criticisms of scientific materialism end up resorting to straw men and ad hominen.

    There are far too many truth claims out there for me to base strong beliefs on unproven hypotheses or religious thinking.

    I do want an authentic path (and think there probably is one) beyond the shallow waters of the modern mindfulness movement but personally I don't see anything wrong with taking a pragmatic approach and dealing with the more tangible aspects of Buddhism.

    newlotus
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Can you guys be my sangha?

    Me too please. As a born-never-again Buddhist, I take all classes, upper, lower and middle with a pinch of saline solution.

    There is anger and innocents killed yesterday in Manchester. Working towards being a center of wisdom and calm and Bodhi wholeness needs every encouragement ...

    newlotus
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @newlotus said:
    I’m Bailing out of my Buddhist class!

    I tried, I really did. But I just don’t agree.

    Sometimes you get sick. Sometimes you get a head ache or a cold. I don’t believe it has ANYTHING to do with Karma from a previous life. Pretty sure its just called being a living thing.
    1 - a cold is caused by a virus
    2 - a head ache is caused by sore muscles (or various other reasons)
    3 - I don’t see how this is Karma!

    I just really REALLY, do not agree nor can I ever agree with Karma from past lives. I just don’t think its constructive or helpful in any way at all.

    What do you think about this though?
    So negative Karma is brought on when we inflict suffering upon others.

    My questions is this.
    I work in HR. I have not had to yet, but at some point I will have to fire someone. This will inflict suffering upon them but I am only doing my job, and it would have a solid basis if this was to happen. Still, its inflicting suffering. Would this be bad Karma?

    Anger
    So anger is bad and we should always try to not be angry as its a bad thing and can create heavy negative Karma.
    My view- Anger is an emotion. Like all other emotions it plays a part in telling you what you need and allows you to resolve it. Thus, you can’t cut out anger. Its a human emotion and I don’t see it bad at all. I think the actions one can take in anger are often not ideal which can lead to bad Karma, but thats not the actual emotion, thats the action.
    In saying this. Some anger is not warranted. Say, the computer did not need to get yelled at when it shut down all of a sudden. But anger is also warranted. When someone hurts you, or someone gets murdered, anger is natural. This doesn’t mean we need to hang onto it and focus all our energy on it. But its there, its real, and I think thats ok.
    So, I think its not the emotion ‘anger’ is how and what you do with that anger that is important and if you can meditate on it and let it go, or if you let it stew and take it out on others. That is when I think the negative Karma comes into it.

    So. Thats it. I’m heading back to my good old books. I know its good to get a sense of community. But 2.5 hours on a work night, after I have been working hard all day. I would very much rather go home and read or play with my puppies. I don’t have much free time during the week. So I like to spend it wisely. Thus, staying home when its cold and reading in front of fire!

    I can't say that I blame you really. If you're in Sydney, I could give you the names of two Sanghas I've attended. Otherwise, happy to even do an online/email study "thing" given there's a few of us Aussies here now.

    Bunksnewlotus
  • TravellerTraveller East Midlands UK Veteran

    I don't know where the view that everything is caused by karma comes from its not what the Buddha taught, that's Hinduism. Teachers should really read up on the five niyamas.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/the-five-niyamas-449741

    Keromeperson
  • newlotusnewlotus Australia Explorer

    @dhammachick
    Bother! I lived in Sydney for a year but moved interstate :(
    An online / email thing sounds cool though! Also, then I don't have to go out anywhere after work :P
    @Traveller - yes agreed!

    lobster
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @newlotus said:
    @dhammachick
    Bother! I lived in Sydney for a year but moved interstate :(
    An online / email thing sounds cool though! Also, then I don't have to go out anywhere after work :P
    @Traveller - yes agreed!

    If any Aussies here are keen, PM me and we can set up an online/email study - discussion group if you want

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    If any Aussies

    Que? Online email study can be global not just for kangaroos ... :p

    newlotus
  • genkakugenkaku Northampton, Mass. U.S.A. Veteran

    @newlotus -- Go for it! Dump the whole thing! Just don't imagine you know for sure what you are talking about. If "Karma" gets your goat, you can either 1. dump it or 2. study it thoroughly. There is no aspect of Buddhism that is carved in granite, that does not morph. There is no rule you must follow or pay some awful, hellish price. Buddhism is about your life, not about your smarts or beliefs.

    Consider, however: If books really had the answers, Buddhism -- like the intellect -- would collapse. Why is it that every year, all the wonderful libraries of the world ADD books to all those other books which promised last year to serve up the "definitive answers" to all those important questions?

    If you get sick, eat chicken soup, or whatever home remedy you prefer. If you insist on believing in past or future lives, whose responsibility is that? If you think there is something holy about spiritual life, please point to a single path that does not or has not screwed the pooch at some point... and yet various quite sensible people persist in following the path.

    There isn't a serious Buddhist around who gives a damn if you or anyone else is a Buddhist. So ... go back to the old, sensible way ...

    And see how that works.

    Best wishes.

    lobster
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @lobster said:

    If any Aussies

    Que? Online email study can be global not just for kangaroos ... :p

    If you want to function on Australian Standard Time you're more than welcome to be the one crawler amongst the jumpers 😃😃😃

  • federicafederica seeker of the clear blue sky Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator

    He can do that! Lobsters crawl, don't they....?!

    lobsterdhammachickHozan
  • DhammaDragonDhammaDragon Carpe Diem switzerland Veteran

    Are we not a sangha of sorts already?😞

  • KeromeKerome Did I fall in the forest? Europe Veteran
    edited May 24

    I think we jollie well are! We should meditate together over Skype! :lol:

    dhammachick
  • dhammachickdhammachick crazy Aussie BUJU Sydney, Australia Veteran

    @Kerome said:
    I think we jollie well are! We should meditate together over Skype! :lol:

    Agreeing on a time will be a challenge

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