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Wot-not-Enlightened?

lobsterlobster Veteran
edited July 1 in Buddhism Basics

What to expect?

From another thread which I resurrected from the necro realms ... o:)

Enlightenment is not first of all a philosophical concept, nor a psychological insight, but a physical event, an energetic, transactional exchange between an individual and the Cosmos.

Enlightenment is for the bodhisattwa an empowerment.

To put it out there that you are enlightened may well be unexpedient and to no positive effect.

The sceptical and materialistic will only scoff; or if some do believe you, it may bring unwelcome adulation from the naive and interference from the powers-that-be.

Enlightenment bears its own seal of unquestionable authority for its recipient, is unshakeable in the face of doubters, and will receive its own evergrowing witness from out of all the ten thousand things.

Seems reasonable. Seems the point of Buddhism. Buddha means awake or enlightened. :) Any more Buddhists yet? 😌

What not to expect?

Comments

  • FoibleFullFoibleFull Canada Veteran

    Very nice quotes.
    I think the most important one is that enlightenment is not a concept. We in the West are so addicted to thinking, and waste a lot of time trying to "think" Buddhism, instead of trying to experience it.
    When I encounter something I don't understand in the dharmic teachings, I don't try to "think/figure" it out. Comprehension comes at its own time and readiness. It is our Practice and not our conceptual thinking that moves us along.

    As for myself, since most of my time is focused on the Eight Worldly Concerns and my attention continually reminds me of my ignorance, attachment, and aversion, I think it is safe to say that I am not enlightened.
    Yet.

    ShoshinkandoBunkselcra1go
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @FoibleFull said:
    Comprehension comes at its own time and readiness.

    It do.

    Everything is in the preparation:

    • calm mind, body and life (what did we think the Sangha are for?)
    • practice of integrity, non-hypocrisy, honesty, sila, virtue ... Who expected The Truth to be available to self liars, abusive people, unkind people? Tsk, tsk ...
    • right focus. Part time dharma ain't gonna cut it ... However beware fanatics and Buddha fan-boys ...
      http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/13680/fanatical-buddhism

    Don't say we have not been told. We have.

  • pegembarapegembara Veteran

    Stop wanting.
    Wake up and smell the coffee.

    When you're without any worldly
    or religious obligations,
    Don't keep on longing to acquire some!

    If you let go of everything —
    Everything, everything —
    That's the real point!

    http://keithdowman.net/guestpage/patrul-rinpoche-advice-from-me-to-myself.html

    lobster
  • personperson Don't believe everything you think 'Merica! Veteran

    Well, that was a blast from the past, It's a pretty good thread. +1

  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    Wow, that is a good one. I've been down in the vaults a few times. As for enlightenment it seems to be a very different experience for different people, from lightning flash to crow squawk.

  • namarupanamarupa Veteran

    A truth junction for all beings and all planes of existence...my weak guess.

    sova
  • LionduckLionduck Veteran

    Enlightenment is a process, an awakening, an emerging from a fog
    it is a remarkable phenomenon and as mundane as the sunrise.

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Indeed @Lionduck

    Exactly so.
    It is no myth. No hypothetical salvation/revelation/darshan. No empty bliss out of the spiritual luvvies.

    Enlightenment is a gift. Like the Buddha Sun Lotus ...

    ... are you ready yet?

  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    Came across this today and like it 'if you get obsessed with Buddhism then Buddhism is a worldly thing. If you are not obsessed with worldly things then worldly things are Buddhist teachings' - an old saying quoted by Zen Master Muso. Rather like playing twister with an eel is Zen! :)

    ShoshinKeromelobsterDavid
  • KeromeKerome Love, love is mystery The Continent Veteran

    @kando said:
    Came across this today and like it 'if you get obsessed with Buddhism then Buddhism is a worldly thing. If you are not obsessed with worldly things then worldly things are Buddhist teachings' - an old saying quoted by Zen Master Muso.

    I think this is very true... a large part of my personal Buddhist path has been about rooting out obsessions with worldly things and learning not to cling. A nice find!

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    @pegembara said:
    Stop wanting.
    Wake up and smell the coffee.

    Sounds like a plan ... B)
    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/19410/why-arent-you-enlightened

  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Opened my hand. Turned it over
    right there, the back of a hand
    'n ever knew, the dropped dharma
    turned over
    carried Nothing

    @kando said:
    Came across this today and like it 'if you get obsessed with Buddhism then Buddhism is a worldly thing. If you are not obsessed with worldly things then worldly things are Buddhist teachings' - an old saying quoted by Zen Master Muso. Rather like playing twister with an eel is Zen! :)

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran

    "Enlightenment is Absolute Cooperation With The Inevitable"

    Or one could say the ability to expect the unexpected
    ( when the unexpected is least expecting it...something like that... ) :)

    kandolobster
  • sovasova delocalized fractyllic harmonizing Veteran

    @Lobster yes I think explaining that all Buddhadharmas are already enlightened is not going to help many, I was thinking that today. It makes sense when you are learning to relax in meditation and then actually absorb in the nature of reality, but until then it's just poppytalk!

    @pagembra i refuse to stop needing, i refuse to stop wanting, i refuse to stop lacking

    because wanting/having needing/fulfilling and lacking/possessing are all dualities

    but the fulfilment of needs does in fact alleviate suffering

    and wanting other beings to not suffer is a mahakaruna-based "want"

    rather than make strong rules and terms, let's just see them for what they are. lately i have been expressing my wants before my needs. which a friend noticed and pointed out. so i have been wondering, what are my wants in this moment versus my needs. what are my needs, and am i lacking anything?

    often i find i'm not needing anything, and therefore i can stop wanting, but wanting to improve your life situation is important and today's day-in-age we can help more beings when our life situations are stable to some degree. so i disagree with this "stop wanting" idea because it lacks context, and i thank you for the opportunity to share the ideas behind my reasoning.

    also, everything is already doing the wave the correct way, it's just our conceptual mind that is obcluding the view of the sky, is it not? so just by not wanting i'm not going to rid myself of conceptual delusion and veil, i need to meditate on compassion and selflessness and truly exchange my welfare and the status of others, because how else will i actually grind away at that conceptual layer that is blocking who i truly am?

    @shoshin absolute cooperation with the inevitable. what does that mean? what's ultimate cooperates with everything already.

    it's nicely said but i don't think it would trigger understanding unless someone already knew what it meant.

    but it does make me consider the wave pool and the dharmakaya mind nature as manifest reality in all moments, not just some.

    so yeah, with regards to liminal awareness, how low can you go? because thinking someone is here is also an obstacle, just as much as thinking nobody is here. =)

    yay thanks everyone, i enjoy commenting on various thoughts and ideas, hope i did not step on any toes. i'm learning to waltz for the first time

    Shoshinkando
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    i'm learning to waltz for the first time

    It is a Tao Dance <3

    In Tantra the desire body is utilised. That is what I was taught. Makes sense. We desire well being and victory for others. We practice to be well. To share well being, metta and ultimately realisation.

    In this sense we replace our useless and negative behaviours, bit by Buddha bit until we are attuned and dancing awake ...

    kandosova
  • kandokando northern Ireland Veteran

    Reading back over this thread is enlightening, wot! thanks to @sova for bringing it back - I didn't get the rhythm back there, glad I kept dancin' :)

  • ShoshinShoshin No one in particular Nowhere Special Veteran
    edited August 13

    From what I gather...Most Dharma teachers use conventional wisdom to pry open their students minds, dislodging the intellect from its comfort zone throne.....We tend to rack our brains (intellectualising) looking for meaning to the Dharmic/Karmic conundrum (called living/life) and get nowhere... It's only when the exhausted intellect gives up looking and only then does nowhere become now-here and now-here nowhere....

    The paradox of practice...Wei Wu Wei

    Dharma teachers can only point the finger, it's up to the student to look/go beyond it...

    Most if not all Dharma practice is "Ehipassiko" ... seeing for oneself ..

    lobster
  • lobsterlobster Veteran

    Exactly so @Shoshin
    Cleverness is not a dance. Thinkink-thing is standing still listening to ones toons. Only the clever toons own us ... samsara walled flowers ...

    @FoibleFull said:
    I think the most important one is that enlightenment is not a concept. We in the West are so addicted to thinking, and waste a lot of time trying to "think" Buddhism, instead of trying to experience it.

    Yeah ... Feel the rhythm ... B)

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