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Fear is incredibly strong. I can't go on like this
So as I said in my first post on this forum, I've been practicing Buddhism for a number of years and fear is the number one thing that seems as strong as ever. I have seen my anger weaken, my determination and positive thinking increase, my laziness decrease etc but fear is still going strong and is stopping me from living life. I know there is suffering in life but others don't seem to suffer much at all. People who have financial and social success, good love lives, a job they love, they are happy, friendly, and they die of old age.
I realise that Buddhism is about recognizing the truth of suffering but there is a reason people turn to Buddhism. To make their life better. I am succesful in some areas of my life but am not realising even half of my full potential because fear is stopping me. Fear of asking for what I want, fear of a new job, fear of interviews, fear of "what if I fail". Even fear of talking to a stranger. No matter how positive I try to think, no matter how much inspiration, words of advice I recieve, when it comes to the situation, I choke up, start mumbling, forget my words. Why is it that even when I a the customer and paying someone for a service I am scared to ask for help? Even when I try to think positive, why am I always feeling anxious?
Even though I try so hard not to, I keep imagining running into negative, miserable people, people misunderstanding my intentions or words and this actually happens in reality.
I just realised there is a very thin line between sanity and insanity and I may have crossed over into insanity. I don't want to live this way. I'm not jus sick of it, I have been sick of for years!!! But nothing has changed!
Sometimes I get so sick of it and so angry that I just say "I don't care anymore, I won't worry about the outcome, and I imagine myself talking and behaving the way I want to behave". This rare moment feels great, and it feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I feel loose. Then then time comes, job interview or whatever it is and I tighten up, choke up, and mess up like every single time. No matter how hard I fight it. Fear has taken a huge hold over my life and I don't know what to do.
I realise that Buddhism is about recognizing the truth of suffering but there is a reason people turn to Buddhism. To make their life better. I am succesful in some areas of my life but am not realising even half of my full potential because fear is stopping me. Fear of asking for what I want, fear of a new job, fear of interviews, fear of "what if I fail". Even fear of talking to a stranger. No matter how positive I try to think, no matter how much inspiration, words of advice I recieve, when it comes to the situation, I choke up, start mumbling, forget my words. Why is it that even when I a the customer and paying someone for a service I am scared to ask for help? Even when I try to think positive, why am I always feeling anxious?
Even though I try so hard not to, I keep imagining running into negative, miserable people, people misunderstanding my intentions or words and this actually happens in reality.
I just realised there is a very thin line between sanity and insanity and I may have crossed over into insanity. I don't want to live this way. I'm not jus sick of it, I have been sick of for years!!! But nothing has changed!
Sometimes I get so sick of it and so angry that I just say "I don't care anymore, I won't worry about the outcome, and I imagine myself talking and behaving the way I want to behave". This rare moment feels great, and it feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I feel loose. Then then time comes, job interview or whatever it is and I tighten up, choke up, and mess up like every single time. No matter how hard I fight it. Fear has taken a huge hold over my life and I don't know what to do.
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The fist key precept is realization of emptiness. This gives rise to the second key precept, which is generation of compassion for all sentient beings.
Have you considered having enough compassion for yourself to seek professional help? When a person has a broken leg, they go to a doctor. When a person has diabetes, they go to a doctor. I used to suffer from unbearable anxiety, and actually continue to do so, after having done so for approximately 30 years.
My first psychiatrist was chosen for me at random by the situation I was in at the time. It turns out this psychiatrist was a Buddhist and approached therapy with me in this way.
I suggest you have compassion for yourself and consider getting professional help with this. IMO, it would be un-Buddhist for you not to.
My access to the internet is unpredictable and I honestly don't know how consistently I can participate in this conversation. But I will do what I can to help based on my own experience.
Because you probably have the condition called anxiety disorder? Have you ever tried talking to a doctor about this? I am telling you as a person who has been diagnosed so don't think this "fear" is something you are making up in your mind. It come up uncontrollably; that's why it's called a disorder.
There are a lot of medication/therapy out there to help you ease it. So first thing you should do is, if you haven't done already, put aside the Buddhist books for a while and see a doctor. You need some control over these feeling to really get into a religious practice me thinks.
Yes, if you just let go of this in-born desire we all have to be accepted, to be thought good of by others, to be loved, to be respected you will feel free. Let it go. Giving yourself a break.
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I fully agree with Deshy. It seems that your problems arise more from 'anxiety' than 'fear'. I suffer from a condition called 'serotonin deficiency syndrome' and the only thing that turned me around was medication (SSRI, in my case). A visit to a medical professional should be the first option. Without proper treatment, you may experience problems even with your Buddhist practices. I hope you get well soon.
When I did this, I found that much of my anxiety was generated by a deep-seated desire to protect and preserve a concept I held to be my self. What I hadn't realized is "that which you resist, persists." By trying to protect and preserve the self so much, I was unwittingly increasing my own suffering. Attempting to resist the fear or run from the fear is the surest way to make the fear stronger, thereby increasing your suffering.
When you realize the illusory nature of the self on a deep level, you stop trying to protect the self so fiercely because you realize there isn't really anything there that needs to be protected. Experiencing an embarrassing situation doesn't cause any harm that isn't illusory. On the flip side, experiencing a successful social interaction doesn't cause any real gain. Loss and gain are illusions.
Eventually you will experience some small situation that you had been trying to protect yourself from-saying something silly to someone, stumbling over your words, whatever. Take a good look and try to see what it is that you have lost from this experience. You will see that any loss is imaginary.
The most Buddhist thing to do would be get professional help.
Our personal mental climate is very complex. By telling people that your problem is fear, you have actually set the stage, and at the same time limited how much people can actually help you, to this one ingredient...Fear.
Because people don’t want to move out of what is called their “Comfort zone,” most of what we gain throughout our life is not made in large leaps and jumps, but in bite sized pieces. Wanting to do it any other way can actually become an obstacle more difficult to overcome, if at all.
Lets say you were deathly afraid of water, you wouldn’t go out and join the swim team to get over it, would you? Rather, you might (more gently) wet a nice soft washcloth with warm water and pleasantly scented it, in order to introduce yourself to what was good in this newly wet experience.
Or if you were deathly afraid of the dark, or even small confining places, we wouldn’t lock you in a closet overnight and let you work it out amid screams
In this same way you can work at desensitizing yourself to things you find fearful. Use your imagination.
We all have fears, every single one of us. (Don’t believe our outward act.) Usually what you fear the most is something you haven’t proven to yourself that you are capable of.
We fear being judged. And worse than that, we fear our own harsh judgment.
Ask yourself:
“Am I a perfectionist?”
“Do I give myself a hard” time?”
“Am I my own worse enemy?”
“Do I always have to be at the top of my game?”
And last but not least:
“Can I just relax a little, because who I am right now is enough?”
I have to tell you. I think I heard some of this in your words. I recognize it because I once suffered a fear of failure that caused physical illness in me. (Spasm in my pyloric sphincter, and my stomach couldn’t empty. Very painful.)
Relax into your life, it will work itself out.
S9
Would you agree that professional help might be one of the options here? My own experience has been that I have often just been completely unable to "relax into my life", and it was found to be largely due to the chemical imbalance we're talking about.
I have to be honest and say I don't like the idea of getting professional help. I would much rather get help from a spiritual method as I believe the whole point of spirituality is to teach us how to live our lives. I know people who've been to shrinks and been prescribed pills and stuff and they are no better off. I know this is not always the case but I think pride is also stopping me from doing this. I consider myself a fighter and would feel that if I got help from a doctor that I would be giving up in a way. Buddha taught us the way to live skillfully. If it's not working then I must be doing something wrong. I don't mean to say that anyone who has had professional help has given up or is weak or anything. Apologies if I've offended anyone. I have no idea what you've been through so I won't criticize others for seeking professional help but it's something I don't like the idea of.
Let me give you a bit of background about myself. I was very, very shy as a child and certain things that kept getting drilled into my head didn't exactly help. As a result, I have had extremely poor social skills. I'm 23 now and I am working hard each day to improve myself in all areas of life. I consider certain things that have happened to me a blessing. I react to negative events in two ways. Sometimes I let them fuel my desire to be a better person. Other times I let them knock me down and feel sorry for myself. Because of some negative events I've become better at some areas of my life such as health and fitness, education, music etc. My social skills however seem to take one step forward and then one step back. It sometimes feels like I'm not getting anywhere. This is an area of my life where negative events affect me greatly. I try to fight it to no avail.
My family also have this fear so I guess its no surprise that I'm the same. I'm also an introvert. When I say fear I'm talking about fear of being myself, fear of being open, being honest and living life the way I want to. For example, some people speak the same way to strangers as they do with their own family. They can be themselves. Why do people like myself feel comfortable with family but become anxious with strangers, start feeling pressure, feeling self conscious etc. What happenes is I sometimes end up making rash decisions under this pressure and then go away thinking "why did I do that? Why did I say yes when I meant no? Why did I agree to meet at this time when I know it'll be inconvenient for me? Why didn't I be more assertive? Why do I always act as if I owe the other person?, why do I let people walk all over me, why am I so scared to stand up for myself?" Do I have an inferiority compex?
Am I a perfectionist? I think so. I really give myself a hard time when I react in what I consider a non-perfect way in social situations. Once I gave a presentation to a class of about 70 people and I won first prize. The audience loved it but I wasn't happy because I was still not myself. I appeared confident but my heart was beating fast and my voice didn't come out the way I wanted it too. There was still a fear inside of me even then, and that was a good day which don't seem to come often enough. So my confidence is still at a low.
Now when it comes to other aspects of my life such as anger, I am not a perfectionist. Sometimes I get irritated for the slightest reasons and I take note of this but I don't beat myself up over it. This is probably the area where I'm making the most progress as I am slowly becoming a less iritable and more patient person. I'm going forward.
I think I also have a huge ego. When I say ego I don't mean that I look down on people or think I am so much better than others but when I lose face or someone comments that I look nervous, my ego takes a huge hit and I beat myself up over it. I start thinking that these people will now never respect me because I didn't appear confident enough.
I just wanna let go, be free, be light, and live life freely with no worries. Right now I am unsure, feel like I'm letting down my family by not having a career or financial sucess and being able to help them, feeling like I cannot get a career because my social skills are too poor, and that I can never inspire people or be a good advertisment for Buddhism.
what a long post, lol, again apologies if I offened anyone.
that was a pretty interesting article, thanks.
You seem to have made your decision. If you're 23 and this is more "annoying" than "debilitating", then that puts it in a different perspective. I myself was reacting to the statement: Fear is incredibly strong. I can't go on like this. If you feel that for the moment you can, in fact, go on like this, then of course I hope you can. In my own case, it took a hospitalization for a major depressive episode. I hope for your sake you don't have to do that, but again, I think the Buddhist idea of having compassion for yourself might be something to keep in mind.
Be well.
Professional help is always an option, especially in an emergency setting, but personally I don’t believe that it needs always to be our first option.
There are many herbs out there over the counter that are in such prevalent use that you can pick them up at Wal-Mart. Herbs like St John’s Wort, which has been used as the antidepressant of choice in Germany, for well over 2 decades now, with no known side effects. There is Valerian, which helps greatly with anxiety. There is Melatonin that is a natural aid to sleep, and so forth…
I personally believe that that many web forums are one of the best group therapies available today. This is because we don’t often actually need someone to step in and fix our life. Often all we need is a sympathetic ear, and chance to share in other people's experiences equally. You certainly can't argue with the price, or the convenience.
I have read also that a good number of people who show up for psychotherapy are actually spiritual seekers in crisis. Buddhism is the very best psychology that I ever ran into.
Let’s face it, in the end, it is we ourselves (after all is said and done) that must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and start all over again, much as the song so aptly puts it. We must do the heavy lifting in our own lives, no matter how well meaning other may be towards us.
Every crisis need not be a breakdown. Very often a crisis is not only a cross-road, but it is a breakthrough. So smile!
One last word, and I will stop flapping my lips, promise. ; ^ ) Chemicals are not like rocks. They are in constant flux. You can be one chemical make up in the morning and be different before night fall. If I make you really angry, you will change drastically before I can snap my fingers. They are not a given.
Think something negative and bingo…shot full of nasty chemicals. Think something scary…you guessed it, another shot of those nasty chemicals. But, it works the other way too, equally. So even if you don’t think something good, say it to yourself anyway.
"WOW, what a nice day...I really love the rain."
Pretend to be happy. Its contagious, and you can catch it from your own acting. TRUE, I promise you.
The mind is so gullible, like a very young child, it cannot tell the difference. It takes everything 100% literally...shots you full of good chemicals. That is why chanting and mantras are such great medicine. Even music releases serotonin. Laughter is the best medicine. Studies have proven this. So take control.
Peace and happiness is a skill,
S9
I am aware of the rest and certainly wish for all the best for people who can do it that way.
Blessings.
Professional homeopath
The only thing a professional homeopath is proficient at is selling water to people who are suffering. Your link doesn't show anything at all, as the study was not double-blind, and there was no control group. Furthermore, the results weren't published in any reputable journal.
I'm not a big fan of treating conditions like what ero-sennin described with medication, as I think the malady is essentially cognitive. Until the root cognitive issues are addressed, medication is just hiding the problem. Of course if someone can't function well enough to address the underlying issues, medication can be used to help the person get to that point.
Two things occur to me. First, think about where this fear originates from. I knew a man who had a learning disability and at school, he was called into a room where kids with special needs were taught for any of the tougher subjects. He was completely humiliated day after day and some of the kids would call him the usual cruel, demeaning names.
As a consequence, he felt extreme anxiety whenever he could not escape a situation where he felt he would be judged. One time, for example, he was in a fast food drive through fairly early in the morning. Someone came up behind him and he felt trapped. He drove over the curb to escape this feeling of being trapped. He became quite dependent on Ativan for anxiety. He carried it with him every where he went.
Once he realized that this was the result of the humiliation as a child, he understood why he felt the way he did. He also realized that the situations he met as a capable man, were not the same. The need for ativan began to fall away and he no longer avoided the situation as he previously had.
A second situation where a person found a way to overcome fear involved exposure.
This lady was extremely self-conscious about being evaluated. She had studied in college, did well on exams and all her coursework was exceptional. She did very well up until she was being evaluated by a supervisor during a practicum. She became so self conscious and frightened that she froze up. Eventually, she flunked out of school. She too had been ridiculed and humiliated as a young child. This had been relentless as well.
Her way out of the dillema was to arrange situations where she was being evaluated. She began to look for situations where she feared being evaluated. One of the ways was arranging job interviews. Other ways included meeting with people who were sizing her up. She arranged for situations even when she didn't really want the job.
The strange thing is, once she actively pursued evaluation situations, she could not get the fear to come back again. Soon she consistently looked for challenging situations and it changed her life.
Understanding the source of our fears and working our way through them are typical approaches a therapist would use. I think the most important thing is that the fear is crippling you. Were I you, I would not waste another moment of my life being held hostage by a thought or feeling that has no validity.
I took medications for a while but stopped it when I found that I can handle things without the drugs but it is important in my opinion that you seek medical help at this point. At least go and see what the doctor has to say. They do not prescribe drugs just like that. Even if you did not take drugs it feels good to talk to a phychatrist or a therapist.
I know the spiritual path is the best way to handle this long term (even better than CBT) but then you should accept the fact that you will have to deal with your anxiety day in and day out until the long term remedies kick in. Your choice
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I don't know where you live, but it might be worth investigating the possibility of Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT) whiich is available in the UK and the USA.
Here's a link which explains it.
http://mbct.co.uk/about-mbct/
There's also a book which gives some strategies and guided meditations, which I've heard that people find very helpful .
"The Mindful Way Through Depression -Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness " by Mark Williams, John Teasdale and Jon Kabat- Zinn. There's a CD with the book too.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mindful-Way-Through-Depression-Unhappiness/dp/1593851286
Kind regards,
Dazzle
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Ero-Sennin, I know exactly how you feel and I regularly have to fight off 'the fear' and periods of anger & depression, but it's getting better now.
It's obvious from the way your post is written that you are an intelligent and creative person, but it seems to me that part of the problem is that you are afraid of failure & what others may think of you, just as I was / am.
The only thing that helped me was analyzing my fears, seeking out what I was afraid of and facing up to them. Most of the time, when you get down to the root of the problem, there was really nothing there at all, just stuff I'd made up in my head as an excuse not to face up to things.
Try this, when the next 'what if' doubt pops up in your brain, answer it!
"What if I talk to that stranger & he doesn't like me??"
So he doesn't like you, so what? You'll probably never meet him again.
But he might like you!
"What if I fail?"
Is trying & failing worse than not trying at all? What are you risking by trying, what might you gain if you succeed?
"What if I have an interview & they think I'm an idiot??"
So they think you're an idiot. Is their opinion that important to you?
You never know, they might like you!
The thing that started my attempts at more positive thinking happened a while back when I was struggling with something at home and afraid to ask for help. A neighbor came over to offer a hand and asked why I hadn't asked for help. When I couldn't give him an answer he said
"You should always ask, the worse that could happen is that I could tell you to F*#k off!"
After laughing for about 10 minutes we finished the job in half the time.:)
Those who can manage to come out of anxiety and depression by way of therapy or spiritual practices, without resorting to drugs (medication), should naturally do so. This much is obvious. Sometimes, especially when the 'illness' is due to chemical imbalances in the brain (a physical condition), patients need drugs to provide at least a temporary respite so that they can concentrate on therapy or spiritual practice. In my own case, the 'illness' brought about a great aversion to CBT programmes and spirituality; but after a year of using medication, I felt much more amenable to CBT programmes and spirituality. It's more than a year now since I stopped medication. This has also been the year that I practiced Buddhism. In my case, it is quite clear that medication did help me in my overall recovery. Whether this will hold true for others, I cannot say.
Did my illness now vanish? Certainly not - because it is a physical condition. But the important difference is: now I can 'see' when the dark cloud of depression and anxiety tries to engulf me; and I know its nature; and I have somehow, through my Buddhist practices, developed an ability to just let it pass by. Hopefully, this ability will grow stronger and stronger as the quality of my meditation and mindfulness increases.
I sincerely hope that this post clarifies my previous post. May everyone caught up in depression and anxiety find their own solutions and enjoy a better quality of life.
What struck me in your postings is the frequent use of the word "fight". You want to fight your fears down. This is, incidentally, very brave. I know what I'm talking about, because I have to deal with similar fears like yours all my life. Somebody told me: "Only the fearful can truly be brave." Think about it. Many people in your situation didn't even try to overcome their fears. You do.
But maybe it's the fighting that causes more trouble than it's helpful. Because these fears are a part of you and many, many people have to deal with them. You will learn to handle them. I'm very sure about this. But you can't defeat them. And you don't have to defeat them. It's not necessary. You will develop some tactics to suppress them and eventually you will be able to handle them. That should be your goal in my opinion and not to get completely rid of them.
Consider that your fears are a part of you. If you fight them, you fight against yourself. Doesn't it sound very odd to defeat yourself to get more self confident and successful?
It seems to me that there's great pressure on you. Some people might say, that you are pressing yourself. But I would assume that you do it as a representative. I know people who seek confirmation all their lives because their parents didn't accepted them as they were as a child. The day they realize this all the pressure is gone.
In my opinion your first task should be to discover, what are the causes and reasons of your sufferings. You don't have to be perfect all the time, but you think you have. Why? I would presume that this is the main cause and the other problems and fears are results of this.
And to get back to your beloved word "fight"
And don't think about professional help as a defeat. That's not true. It's a smart move to take all help you can get. You posted in this forum and you received a lot of help! Nobody in this forum thinks that you are weak, because everybody knows that it is very brave to take up this challenge in the first place.
It's clever to accept help. Every successful fighter knows that
Sherbdorje wrote:
I don't think I'm at the point where I need medical intervention and I hope it doesn't get to that. At the same time this is more than just a minor inconvenience, but maybe it's me that is making it so by reacting to it in the wrong way. Maybe if I accept that it's there and stop trying to make it disappear then I might feel less pressure. You're right, I do need to have more compassion for myself because I've been beating myself up a lot, feeling like a weak person.
Allbuddha Bound wrote:
You're right. When I was younger I was constantly told how poor my social skills were, mostly by my dad. I'm not mad at him, although sometimes when I think about it I get annoyed because he still has a pretty negative outlook on life. One big fear I have is if I fail now it means nothing has changed, I've let him down once again even though I'm not a child any more, but a man. I feel like I haven't grown up. I feel like I'm years behind my actual age of 23.
Dazzle, thanks for the links, I'll check them out.
Jovial prankster
You got it, I am afraid of failure and I can totally relate to the story about not asking for help. That sounds just like me.
The stuff about chemicals is interesting because sometimes when I think about it logically, I know it makes sense to let go of worrying thoughts because they won't help me. Yet I still have the physical symptoms of being worried such as tightening up, forgetting words etc. Chemicals are causing this but the negative thoughts must be releasing these chemicals. Even if I think I don't have negative thoughts, maybe they are still there on a deeper level which I can't see or control yet.
Jati- your english is great. Yeah I do feel pressure and I have been fighting it all this time and getting nowhere. Maybe it's this that is causing me to become so messed up. I've recently been trying to practice something I learned where you react to external situations in better ways. For example, if you trip up hurt yourself you can become really angry or not. So I've been feeling miserable because I always seem to react to situations with fear instead of no fear. However, maybe I need to change the way I react to fear. Instead of feeling miserable about having it, I could accept it. I don't know if this is the right way but all I know is that I'm exhausted and don't feel like fighting it any more. I carried on because I thought I would be a weak person if I didn't fight it. Maybe that view was wrong.
I will let go and try to accept things as they are. Maybe the chemicals will still cause a physical response in me. If it does carry on like that then I may need medical intervention, but I'm gonna give this another shot first.
Your written communication is excellent but unfortunately, mine isn't, so I hope I don't come across as negative or demeaning. But can I just add some of my experience from something you said earlier about wanting to be that confident person that you see in others. That to me sounds like you compare your 'insides' with other people's 'outsides'.
From my own experience, I'm an ex-soldier of 17 years service; I left as a Warrant Officer; and one of the things that used to terrify me was inspecting soldiers prior to them going onto guard duty. As part of every inspection I had to look each soldier in the eye to check that they weren't impaired by alcohol or drugs; and I found that tough to do; I suspect it may have been because by looking them in the eye, they'd be looking me in the eye, and I didn't want them to see me for the fraud I felt I was.
But I still inspected the troops and I made the 'right noises', even if on the inside it frightened the life out of me.
So, just because someone looks and acts confident, it doesn't mean they are, so its best not to use these 'confident types' as a bench mark for your own perceived failings.
This isn't a Buddhist 'thing', I'm writing from a human point of view.
Regards,
Tosh
Sometimes what we think we are afraid of isn’t what we are actually afraid of. Some people are afraid of success, and don’t even know it.
Why?
Sometimes we are hemmed in by doing what everyone expects of us, and it isn’t really what our own hearts want. We feel that success would close the door, lock it, and throw away the key on us ever breaking free and doing what we wanted to do with our own life.
Why do we live a life that isn’t our life?
Because somewhere along the line we were told, in one way or another, that if we didn’t do what was expected of us, we wouldn’t be accepted/belong or worse, we wouldn’t be loved. Isolation is very frightening to many people. They even use it as punishment in the prisons,
But, and this is often hard to understand, love begins at home with us loving ourselves, If we don’t, than no amount of love from the outside can fill that empty hole in our heart.
Someone can love you dearly, but you will not be able to trust that love, not for a minute, feeling in your own heart that you do not deserve it, your are not worthy. You will worry about the day that they actually see through you, see you for what you actually are, unlovable, and they will immediately withdraw, leaving you alone.
You just can’t dance fast enough to stay in the limelight of other people’s eyes/life. Most people are way too caught up in wondering what you and others are thinking about them. So, in the end, we are always thrown back on our own resources, and must find happiness from the inside out.
Peace,
S9
Once you’ve accepted that it’s inaccurate thoughts causing you to feel anxious you can start working on changing them. Because changing the way you think will change the way you feel.
My advice would be to look at it as a long term campaign you’ll need to engage, rather than hoping for a short term ‘miracle’ cure from medication.
http://socialanxietydisorder.org.uk/how-mindfulness-meditation-can-reduce-your-anxiety/
Sometimes we have to redefine things b/4 we can see them:
For instance:
What is a negative thought?
A negative thought is anything that makes me feel bad. Feeling weakened by a thought is a way of feeling bad. "It takes the wind out of my sail."
Being put in a bad light (a put down) or of not living up to someone’s expectations is a negative thought…stuff like that.
Keep looking…I’m sure you will find more.
Very often these thoughts repeat themselves many times a day (engrams)…don’t count that as one bad thought when it keeps repeating itself. That is more like a flood, isn't it. Everytime the thought repeats itself again, it is like hitting you with a stick, once again. So there is a big difference between being hit with a stick and being beat to a pulp. : ^ (
Investigate closely, my new friend, and clean house.
Peace,
S9
Then you expect to be criticized and berated every time you are put in a situation where you may be judged. Is it true that you get judged every time you are in this situation? Are you still that little child who your father told he could never do it right?
Hi ero-sennin,
I'm going to take a risk here because diagnosing disorders is not something that anyone should be doing in this kind of setting. Only a qualified health practitioner should be trusted.
However, the suffering you're describing sounds like a text-book case of social anxiety disorder, a very common and treatable disorder.
As I said, I don't want to take the responsibility of diagnosing disorders in anyone but I had to speak up because your posts so clearly describe this disorder.
The first thing you can do is start researching 'social anxiety disorder' online. I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised. Of all the anxiety disorders, social anxiety is one of the easiest to treat.
Disorders of these kind are chemically based, as you've already figured out. That doesn't mean you were necessarily born with it. There are many ways for these things to develop and you could talk and think and talk and think for the rest of your life and never find relief. You have to take a realistic approach. The physiological aspects of these disorders have largely been mapped by neuroscientists and medication to manage them have been extremely effective.
You don't have to live this way. Medication can improve your quality of life substantially.
But medication is not a cure. What the medication can do, however, is keep your head far enough above water for other treatments to become effective. So you manage and treat the disorder, or attack it, on three fronts; the biochemical front, the psychological front, and the spiritual front. This three pronged approach has had the best results.
Pathological fear has been my constant companion since I was a child. I have a severe form of panic disorder and it has caused the deepest pain I have ever suffered. I've been taking an SSNRI for 10 years and I'm not exaggerating when I say it probably saved my life.
I'm no great fan of the pharmaceutical industry nor of psychiatry. I resisted medication for a long time and was hurt by an incompetent psychiatrist. I had to hit rock bottom for my rigid views to change. Nothing is all bad and that includes the pharmaceutical industry and psychiatry. There is good there. In fact, some of the greatest good so far has been the advances made in depression and anxiety disorders.
I urge you to start doing some research. Attack your fear from every angle; biochemically and psycho/spiritually. Allow the medications to do their job. They will give you a leg up, just enough help for you to further treat the fear with other methods.
Ugh social anxiety is exactly what I have and I don't know if I can get rid of it. I really don't know they are from inaccurate thoughts, my SA thoughts are very rational. And when I try to do metacognition I FORGET what I was thinking of most of the time, due to maybe my undiagnosed ADHD (I've smoked weed in the past and it changed my cognition, and deeply contributed to me forgetting things, since I would be scared of forgetting things, and scared of that as well, and so on, to make me "freeze up" which lead to me completely forgetting my coping mechanisms for fear.)?
I don't know what to do, there are so many paths out there, and none of them work! So many people have been in therapy for decades with no avail, and many other doing medication. I have maybe heard 1 success story of SA, and 3000+ failure stories. And that success story took years of work.
I know no one can do the walk the path for me, but I can receive directions... Right now I'm running, but in the dark...
Maybe the answer is in this thread, I wasn't even going to look at this thread but in a sort of divine guidance, I was reciting "Talking through glass" by thrice in my head, whose chorus is "I, Can't Carry On, Living like this!"
What do you mean by SA thoughts?
So if there are thoughts you do not remember, how can you know if you entertain inaccurate thoughts or not?
Mindfulness and awareness of what is going on before you have these feelings or beliefs of anxiety is key to understanding the setting where you suffer.
What is your belief about social anxiety? What do you tell yourself about social anxiety? What thought makes you feel anxious? Do you tell yourself you will fail? Do you imagine yourself being unable to control yourself in these situations?
Situations outside my comfort zone will likely result in me lacking the skills to take on the situation, making me fearful of acting wrongly. Or in situations where I truly do NOT know what to do, I freeze up oftentimes. Though there are magic moments when I am comfortable and I can wing anything, almost like being drunk, but my emotions are dictated by my unconscious, and there's no way in hell I can control that...
Another thought, if your unconscious is telling you a story about failure, you don't have to control it. Just realize your unconscious tells you stories that defeat you. Rather than fight to control it, you can expect it every time you take on a challenge. If you expect your unconscious to tell you a story of defeat yet you have succeeded at times, isn't your unconscious inaccurate?
Let the stories come. Your unconscious is not your master. Even your eyes, memories and experiences have taught you that your unconscious does not decide the outcome. You have succeeded in spite of your unconscious.
I'm sorry you've closed your mind to the possibility that homeopathy can work. I have found it tremendously helpful and it grieves me that it is not more widely known and appreciated.
For me, it is important to develop a sense of what is 'right' and 'wrong', of what harms or transgresses another and what does not.
As a simple example, in my job I must sometimes make contact with professionals who have been very naughty. There are times I hestitate because I feel I will embarrass & humiliate that person. But then I reflect I must do my job and my job accords with the law and what is good & right. So I contact or meet that person with equinimity and without the nervousness of taking on their karma.
It is the same with our personal lives and our societies.
If we have a job, have done our job well, have developed skill, it is right we deserve a better job.
Or if we have a need, problem or question, it is right we ask the right people for help.
Very importantly, that we ask others for things, like a new job, is a sign that we trust others.
Trust is the opposite of fear. How much is our fear due to not trusting ourselves and believing we are not good enough and how much is our fear due to not trusting others, believing others believe we are good enough?
Do we have the ability to do that new job we want? If so, then it is right we apply for it. Further, the employer wants us to apply for it. They wish to see what we have to offer them.
Giving is the same as receiving. Trusting others is the same as trusting ourselves. People trust us when we trust them.
To me, you sound like you have developed and improved yourself greatly from what was your base family environment. Often our family life can drag us a down so we have to cultivate ourselves. My family life was a little like that. You have shown you can move beyond your family life.
Please try to understand in the big wide world, especially in the work environment, whilst we need to be tactful, polite, etc, we also need to be very straightforward, unambiguous & negotiate outcomes. The work environment can only function efficiently when the workers have clear communciation, focused in the corporate goal rather than personal sensitivities.
If I must service a client's needs and I must ask another worker to do something or change what they have done, then I must ask them because the primary priority is serving the client's needs. This is why I am employed and why the corporation or organisation exists.
So to end my offering to you, it is important to develop a sense of what is socially 'right' and 'wrong' rather than to be pre-occupied with the personal sensivities of people & ourselves.
Kind regards
DDhatu
I've been following this dialogue and considering how to respond with effective practical advice and recommendations. When I read your initial post I felt concerned and confused because I wish you well and want you to have skillful means to work with.
Will you please help me understand your circumstances better by letting me know, as vividly and precisely as you can, exactly how "fear" feels as it appears in your body? I mean what sensations to you experience in your muscles, bones, stomach, eyes, and other parts of your body? Will you please take some time and really concentrate on how fear appears, "feels", in your body with as much focused attention and tender calmness as you can muster, then post that here so I may read it?
Shalom and Hugs
Sounds like you have beed having a hard time of things with lots of fearful thoughts and feelings blocking you from doing the things you would like to do.
I myself have struggled with social anxiety and share your frustration. I am 37 and was diagnosed with depression anxiety at 19 and have take medication since then. I would say I first became depressed at 12 and was anxious before that. I have mixed feelings about taking medication. They have enabled me to continue working sometimes but I wouldnt say they have improved my life beyond basic functioning.
I have done some CBT and I found it just another stick to beat myself up with. I found it very aggressive and exhausting and weakening to challenge and change every thought and belief. I find the Buddhist practice of shamatha medition as described by Pema Chodron labeling thinking as 'thoughts' and letting them go much simpler and gentler. The only CBT I would encourage is a form called ACT and the mindfulness based programs.
I have found seeing a psychologist and a psychiatrist helpful. I had to try different ones out to find the people I could trust and work with.
Jeffrey recomended a book called "When things fall apart - Heart advice in difficult times" by Pema Chodron I would also highly recomend this book as a great freind who has helped me in difficult times. I have also read "The places that scare you - a guide to fearlessness in difficult times" "Start where you are" and "The wisdom of no escape and have found them all invaluable. I would probably reocomend Stat where you are which includes the practice of Tonglen and the Lojong teaching for you first.
I would also recomend the you start the practice of Tonglen which Pema Chodron teaches and writes about as a way to develop first self compassion and then compassion for others. I would really like to stress the need for you to do the practice for yourself first. A teaching on the practice can be found at: http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen1.php
and the instructions on the practice can be found at:
http://www.shambhala.org/teachers/pema/tonglen2.php
The reason the fear remains while the other stuff has decreased is they were secondary defences to protect you from fear. By decreasing them you have cleared the path to start to tackle your fear. Well done! Some people dont get anywhere near this. They are still fast asleep. You are starting to wake up. Uncomfortable isn't it? Yet still joyful at the same time.
take care
Really
I totally disagree. Shyness is one thing but feeling terrified of facing an interview, getting constant paranoid fantasies, feeling scared at social gatherings and wanting to get away from it, getting sweat all over the body with shaking hands, faintish feverish feelings... Do you call that shyness?
This is a very common mistake that a lot of people who have never gone through an anxiety condition make. When I first started taking treatment some people were like "why do you need it? this is something you are making up, it is not that big of a deal". Anxiety is not mere shyness it is a disorder because it sometimes handicaps a person to the point that they are unable to get even the normal day to day work done like going to the grocery store.
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You've given me some awareness of it, and I am a typical consumerist suckered into corporate marketing and the like, so I thank you. My partner also uses these methods and I was initially sceptical..anyway thanks from this one. _/\_
For instance, when someone says, "I can’t take it anymore," (come on, how many times have you said that to yourself? I think every kid alive on this planet has said that at least once to themselves and others).
Yet, some of us would imagine him/her with a gun in his mouth…would we not? We might find ourselves dialing 911 in a sweat, simply because we feared the worst, and couldn’t stand the idea of taking something too lightly, and being proved wrong.
: ^ (
That is how strongly the idea of psychotherapy as being the first and best choice has got us trained. We are perpetually surrounded with this suggestion. (Suggestion as in hypnosis) Makes you wonder, doesn't it, how people in other centuries even survived? Can you spell ‘fashion’ of our times?
I, on the other hand, having grown up in a highly emotional family, figure they might simply be doing more of the same, blowing off steam, by exaggerating way out of proportion to the problem itself, while being in the heat of passion.
(Trouble was like a badge of honor in the lower middle class family, as they often have little else to make them feel special.)
What such a statement might actually represent, could simply be her/his relief at finally having someone to talk to, and not having to worry about the fall out of extended judgments. After all, we didn’t even know his real name, did we? So it was more like thinking out loud, but with an audience.
There is something to be said for remaining anonymous. ; ^ )
However, it did show me one thing. How she/he talked to him/her self and continuously threw fuel on the fire of his passions. Very often this isn’t a 'one time only thing.' It represents habits that are probably deeply entrenched.
Think about that next time you are talking to yourself. Someone is listening. You are.
: ^ )
Peace is a skill,
S9
However I don't think anyone was suggesting he get help because he might have a gun to his head. Rather it sounds like this is beyond regular shyness and is controlling his life. The Buddha did teach to live skillfully-sometimes this means seeking help. Sometimes the Dhamma is enough… sometimes a dash of CBT can make all the difference. Someone described it as very harsh but in my experience this is not the case. It was actually very in sync with Buddhist practises. It was about mindfulness, observation, and seeing what behaviour was helpful and what was not and gently correcting harmful habitual thought patterns.
We can often, through indicators get a pretty good idea where other people are coming from. We are after all not so very different from each other.
He did seek help. Didn't he?
And:
We did our best didn't we?
Sometimes all you need to do is remove a splinter, and not amputate the whole hand, just because it may infect later on.
I read somewhere, written by a professional therapist that, very often he finds himself supplying what used to be supplied by the community, a priest, family, or even close friends.
We as a society have become so overly busy, and isolated from each other, that we now turn to the professionals for this same service. I personally have great hopes for the web bringing us all back together again, in some small but necessary way. (An electronic community.)
I am not sure that always thinking about the worst thing that can happen to you or to others is an efficient or healthful strategy.
I, as a neglected child, became what is often called hypervigilence in response. That isn't a good thing. Take it from someone who had to live it. It took me many years to release all of the knots of tension that I had accumulated like armour.
Q: "Most of what we fear never happens."
Calm cool water,
S9
I wasn't suggesting this (that we always think about the worst things that could possibly happen, always assume the worst), at all. I was saying, that when someone makes a post with words that even suggest they might be suicidal, there is nothing wrong with suggesting they go get some help immediately as a precaution, even if it turns out the person didn't mean it literally.
But that isn't what this is about, and professional help comes in many forms and isn't just for suicidal people.
I personally have SAD, and I know a few other people in this Thread do as well. So I feel I have a pretty good idea of where he is coming from, and those other people do as well. We are saying, if it's controlling him, affecting his quality of life, then we know from firsthand experience that professional help could be very useful. This shouldn't be so taboo. As I said, proper CBT is very in tune with Buddhist teachings and can be extremely beneficial to someone in this situation.
Yes, it's nice to just have someone to listen and understand, and it's very important and we can be there for people in that way. But that isn't always enough. I'm not sure what's wrong with additionally suggesting professional help in the form of CBT or something similar.
Do you think that the people who post here are from off planet, and it never crossed their mind’s, not even once, that there was professional help out there? Chances are, for one reason or another they have decided not to pursue that particular avenue.
So when someone reaches out to me, I take their hand in mine and walk with them for a while.
No one is suggesting that professional help is taboo, now, are they? Can you spell exaggerate?
I grew up in the Boston area, where pretty much everyone has a touch of the winter blues, because of the lack of sunlight. You might have possibly treated yourself with special lights, so many times a day.
But, let me repeat myself, one more tome. Every ailment isn’t just one thing, “one size fits all.’ Sometimes professional help is called for, granted, but, not in every instance.
I don’t think that anything is wrong with suggesting what you believe in your heart is the right thing to do. But, and this is important, you have to allow other people to do the same thing. They have to come from their own knowledge base, and integrity on these issues.
But, that is what’s great about this forum, (well one of the things) the variety of different answers to any one problem, is like a banquet of caring. In this way, someone is bound to be helpful.
Be well,
S9
.
S9, fivebells suggested that SAD is just mere shyness. I and others were only clarifying that. To me, it sounds beyond this, and if he feels this is the case, then from firsthand experience, I would suggest professional help from a CBT therapist who essentially will teach mindfulness, observation of the true nature of the anxiety, and how to cope with it… much like vipassana. All I said was that he shouldn't feel he would be weak to seek help in this form, and that it is actually complimentary to Buddhist practice. I'm really not sure what your last post is all about…