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Again, you mention karuna and skillful means without explaining them, and your audience immediately understands and is delighted? This is a question about your specific actions. Do you provide an explanation or not? Telling me that the word compassion is understood by all doesn't tell me whether you provided an explanation or not.
should have been this.
Again, you mention karuna and skillful means without explaining them, and your audience immediately understands and is delighted?
This is a question about your specific actions. Do you provide an explanation or not? Telling me that the word compassion is understood by all doesn't tell me whether you provided an explanation or not.
I did actually make the correction, saved it, and made sure it was displaying properly in the thread. When I checked it a little later, it had reverted to the uncorrected version. At that point it was too late to try to make the edit again.
The 4 Noble Truths require no explanation, do they?
Then why is so much of Buddhist teaching and writing devoted to explaining them?
I wasn't aware that there was a body of teaching and writing ("commentaries"?) devoted to explaining them. That doesn't seem to be necessary. If you review some of the comments on this thread, you'll find that I'm not the only one who feels this way. I must say, however, after studying endless commentaries upon commentaries in the Tibetan tradition (on other subjects), I can't escape the conclusion that some Buddhists do seem to enjoy verbiage.
I use the same terms for the concepts we're discussing as I was given when I received these teachings. The Dalai Lama and other teachers use these terms, they don't quibble about whether "suffering" adequately expresses "dukkha".
Westerners receive teachings that are expressed with western languages and concepts.
Because few Westerners speak Eastern languages. And these Western languages and concepts are just as effective in communicating the principles to Mid-East and Easterners who speak Western languages. You're putting words in my mouth: I do not use the word karuna or dukkha, so no explanation is needed. Saying "the 4 Noble Truths stand alone" also means no explanation is necessary, nor has ever been necessary in my experience. Is that not clear? How many times do I need to answer the same question? Really, this is very strange, RenGalskap. Rather than continuing to rehash this over and over here, if you require any further clarification, please address it in a PM. Otherwise I might have to use SherabDorje's favorite threat, to post the flogging-the-dead-horse picture!
Getting back to the OP, Julia asked for a Buddhist tradition that has less Asian culture. She specifically mentions Tibetan Buddhism. I think she's going about this the wrong way. All traditions are marked by the societies they evolved in. However, individual sanghas and teachers have reinterpreted Buddhism in ways that deemphasize their Asian ancestry. Some Tibetan teachers have actually been leaders in this. Large sections of Chogyam Trunpa's writings can be understood without knowing anything about Tibet. The same is true for some of his students.
Theravada and Zen were two of the first traditions to start Westernizing. Since they've had more time to adapt to western culture, my highly subjective observation is that it's easier to find groups with a western outlook in those two traditions, and definitely easier to find books. But you have to remember that both traditions also include groups that have resisted westernization.
So, look for individual sanghas, meditation groups, teacher, or authors. Don't worry to much about which tradition they belong to.
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federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
edited April 2011
CW, I apologize for the distress I caused you.
It's not a question of causing distress. Taking a thread off topic, and using it to pursue a tit-for-tat discussion (bordering on bickering) with one other member, for the sole purpose of insisting on making your point - is both rude and unnecessary. next time you feel drawn to starting a debate in this way - quit, take it to PMs and do not derail or hijack someone else's thread.
I can understand that all traditions are marked by the societies. But maybe some traditions are easier to adapt in our western culture or they are less ritualistic and cultural.
But maybe some traditions are easier to adapt in our western culture or they are less ritualistic and cultural.
From what I've seen, it's not a matter of one tradition being more congenial to westernization than other, but rather a matter of individuals and groups putting time and effort into westernizing their tradition. A common phenomenon is the traditional Buddhist congregation that is part of an immigrant community, and the westernized Buddhist congregation in the same community consisting of local western converts. There's usually very little communication between them because the Buddhism practiced in one doesn't appeal to members of the other.
If you're looking for a sangha, try a few in your area without worrying too much about what tradition they are. If you are looking for books, check out authors who have a large western readership. You may find that other differences, e.g. analytical vs. emotional, are as important to you as Asian vs. western.
Comments
You're putting words in my mouth: I do not use the word karuna or dukkha, so no explanation is needed. Saying "the 4 Noble Truths stand alone" also means no explanation is necessary, nor has ever been necessary in my experience. Is that not clear? How many times do I need to answer the same question? Really, this is very strange, RenGalskap. Rather than continuing to rehash this over and over here, if you require any further clarification, please address it in a PM. Otherwise I might have to use SherabDorje's favorite threat, to post the flogging-the-dead-horse picture!
Getting back to the OP, Julia asked for a Buddhist tradition that has less Asian culture. She specifically mentions Tibetan Buddhism. I think she's going about this the wrong way. All traditions are marked by the societies they evolved in. However, individual sanghas and teachers have reinterpreted Buddhism in ways that deemphasize their Asian ancestry. Some Tibetan teachers have actually been leaders in this. Large sections of Chogyam Trunpa's writings can be understood without knowing anything about Tibet. The same is true for some of his students.
Theravada and Zen were two of the first traditions to start Westernizing. Since they've had more time to adapt to western culture, my highly subjective observation is that it's easier to find groups with a western outlook in those two traditions, and definitely easier to find books. But you have to remember that both traditions also include groups that have resisted westernization.
So, look for individual sanghas, meditation groups, teacher, or authors. Don't worry to much about which tradition they belong to.
Taking a thread off topic, and using it to pursue a tit-for-tat discussion (bordering on bickering) with one other member, for the sole purpose of insisting on making your point - is both rude and unnecessary.
next time you feel drawn to starting a debate in this way - quit, take it to PMs and do not derail or hijack someone else's thread.
If you're looking for a sangha, try a few in your area without worrying too much about what tradition they are. If you are looking for books, check out authors who have a large western readership. You may find that other differences, e.g. analytical vs. emotional, are as important to you as Asian vs. western.