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Disrespectful?

keithgkeithg Explorer
edited March 2006 in Faith & Religion
Hello, I was wondering if it is disrespectful to rub the belly of the statues of Buddha. I have done it in the past because a friend told me it was good luck (Although I dont believe in luck). If so I really want to stop doing that, I have read about your beliefs and I have a great respect for it now. Also I would like to know of anything else that I should avoid doing that would be disrespectful towards Buddhists.

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    hello Keithg, and welcome!
    I have a little bronze laughing Buddha, whose belly I often stroke - more as an 'affectionate' gesture, than anything associated with luck.
    I am personally unaware of any cultural traditions or habits which say this is acceptable - or unacceptable for that matter. You may find different cultures and traditions say different things.
    Go with sincerity, with what feels comfortable. If your actions are not malicious, then I don't think you have too much to worry about.
    If you travel extensively to exotic far-away climes, it may serve you to research the traditions, habits and cultural requirements of your destination. It's only polite, and applies to any visitor, not specifically to Buddhism.... (someone else on this forum has posted a query about stepping on a temple threshold, for example, because he was discouraged from doing so....)

    With regard to learning, there will be many on this forum only too happy to answer your queries and questions... don't expect all the replies to be the same, or even to agree necessarily... Buddhism is all about 'the great adventure of seeking within'...!
    Welcome to you, and happy you've decided to join us!! :)
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited January 2006
    To most Chinese it means luck, wealth and stuff like that. To me? It's just a nice fat comfy stomach nice to rub. (Explains why I have one of my own!)
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited January 2006
    I know that there have been other threads about the "fat" buddhas but it might be woth remembering something about the belly and the hara in Sino-Japanese thought. In the Hindu system of chakras, the svadisthana chakra is more or less half-way between the navel and the top of the pubic bone (Please correct me if I'm wrong,. Fede. I am digging into old strata of memory). This is also the hara in the Japanese system, the source of ch'i energy. In the West, we praise the flat stomach and wear tight belts, causing the muscles of the belly wall to contract. The physiological results are digestive problems such as constipation and cancer of the bowel because the fascia constrict the peristaltic process. Over and above these problems are psychological and spiritual contra-indications.

    Whn I sit in the contained relaxation of meditation and slowed breath, I need to release the vestimentary constraints that jeans, belt, etc., impose on this energy centre, I need to "let it all hang out".

    If you haven't tried it, I urge you to do so. I am sure that Comic and those others who practise 'martial' arts will agree that the results are very surprising. For example, dress (or undress) in such a way as to have no type of constriction between navel and genitals; stand with your feet at shoulder width apart, knees slightly flexed, shoulders and arms relaxed. Let your focus reduce until it centres on the rise and fall of the svadisthana, gradually inviting the fascia muscles of your belly to let go of all tension. Let your belly sag! And then just breathe, with bare attention resting lightly on the expansion and 'grounding' which may come.

    I said, elsewhere, that I like to warm up before I sit. This is one of my preliminary warm-up exercises.

    A big, relaxed belly is a sign of spiritual and physical health. As you notice from the big-bellied buddhas, they are not obses: look at their arms and shoulders. They are spiritual athletes.
  • inlytened1inlytened1
    edited January 2006
    You may be thinking about the Laughing Buddha, or, "Ho Tei"
    The Laughing Buddha is thought to be based on an historical figure who spent years wandering across China, a fat Zen monk named Pu-tai (China) or Ho-Tei (Japan). The name Hotei means "cloth bag," and he is believed to have carried a cloth sack wherever he went full of candies and toys to give to children. He is worshipped for prosperity and luck, & when viewed as an incarnation of the future Buddha Maitreya, he is also worshipped as a fertility deity.

    http://www.liasiagallery.com/hotais.html
    1-05dry_lac_s.jpg

    Rubbing his belly is considered good luck.
  • sharpiegirlsharpiegirl
    edited January 2006
    Speaking of fat Buddhas...is the difference between the fat Buddha and the 'thin' Buddha of Thailand, Tibet, etc., strictly cultural?
  • zenmonk_genryuzenmonk_genryu
    edited January 2006
    The thin Buddha is Sakyamuni, or Gautama the Buddha. The fat Buddha was a tenth Century Zen/Chan monk called Hotei.
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Really? I always thought that both were Gautama - only different cultures. But I do know the extreme fat one with the very big belly is Matreiya. Shame, I sort of liked the fat one more - but IDOLISM NOT ALLOWED!
  • zenmonk_genryuzenmonk_genryu
    edited January 2006
    The fat one, Hotei, is thought of as an emanation of Maitreya but is also the Tenth Century Chan monk.
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    ......Which just goes to show that when Buddha resisted having an accurate portrait or likeness made of him, because of its' irrelevance to those wishing to study and follow the Dharma, he was right to reason that it would be a distraction, and an incorrect representation of what he intended his message to be - a statement from a man, to Man....
  • ajani_mgoajani_mgo Veteran
    edited January 2006
    I heard he was against the making of statues of himeself during his lifetime - till the first appeared in Afganistan a few hundred years later or something.
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited January 2006
    ajani_mgo wrote:
    I heard he was against the making of statues of himeself during his lifetime - till the first appeared in Afganistan a few hundred years later or something.

    One of the 'places' where the Shakyamuni Buiddha and the Great Helmsman, Mao Tse Tung, speak with one voice is in their opposition to the "cult of personality". Where they differ is that Gautama meant it.

    P.S. Ajani: If you are interested, here are some interesting sites about Gandhara art:
    Wikipedia

    Historical Essay

    Pakistan Government heritage site

    Some very good pics
    The head, top right, in profile, really shows the influence of the Greek, "Phoebus Apollo" style, with a sort of Phrygian cap. The 'topknot' on so many sub-continent Buddha statues and Tibetan thangkas is reminiscent of the god Apollo's hair, too.



  • MBoldenMBolden
    edited February 2006
    heheheheh, I used to think that way also. I often rub the Buddha stomach at that Valley Creek center. We often get together and have vegetable foods. Them folks that I met are very funny, they often give me some tea along with some vegetable chicken, look like a chicken, taste like a chicken, hell it must be chicken unless some dirty old bastards slip real chicken meat in there, heheheh.

    The point that I am trying to make is it does not matter what you eat or whatever old hell custom you follow. When you know this Light as described in the Gospel of Thomas, everything else is just secondary, that what my pastor told me down that old st. James church.

    Hallelujah
    M Bolden
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2006
    Your pastor tells you a lot of things, M Bolden....hopefully you make your own mind up about some things yourself - !!
  • KnitwitchKnitwitch
    edited February 2006
    My word that good ole accent is getting stronger every day - mind you stay understandable like your first post my dear.
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited February 2006
    M Bolden wrote:
    When you know this Light as described in the Gospel of Thomas, everything else is just secondary, that what my pastor told me down that old st. James church.

    Hallelujah
    M Bolden

    What is this "light as described in the gospel of Thomas" of which you speak?

    -bf
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2006
    ....and is there a dimmer switch -?:D
  • MBoldenMBolden
    edited February 2006
    Mr. Buddhafoot,

    Here is the link to the website.
    http://www.gospelthomas.com/gospelthomas83.html

    I sincerely tell you that most of my fellow churchgoers listen to the Gospel on Sunday down on that St. James church. I do not think that they git the meaning of what Jesus says. Jesus is symnonymous with this Light that is being described in the Gospel, he is not the flesh.

    I myself combine the theory with the practice of Buddhist meditation, that is the practice to transcend Samsara. Just watching my meditation group of people breath in and breath out makes me laff, heheheheh. For once, some of them folks either are hanging onto their bodies or the car garages or their old guns or for whatever the reason. That is the hindrane when they try to practice meditation. Pastor told me the idea is to let go of materialism, even the belief in no-soul will hinder the practitioner because they have to know what are they looking for. Some look for peace, some look for happiness, some look for nothingness, but me. Nah, I look for this Light that Avatamsaka Sutra and the Gospel mentioned.

    BTW, I did not graduated from high school because my farm needed help. Had some fun with them whipper snapples down in old Alabama towns though, heheheh
    But I still can read the Gospel and the Avatamsaka Sutra just fine.

    Hallelujah
    M Bolden
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited February 2006
    M Bolden,

    Thanks for the link. I will definitely check it out!

    -bf
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited February 2006
    Hmm... well, I did check it out.

    I'm still confused.

    What "images" are we talking about? What "light"?

    Are the teachings of Christ "the light"? Or is Christ the "light" (that came to a world filled with darkness...)?

    And how does this relate to the teachings of Buddha?

    Thanks in advance for any info.

    -bf
  • MBoldenMBolden
    edited February 2006
    Mr. Buddhafoot,

    Maybe it is just me, I did not use my discriminating mind to look for this so called The Light. What I understand is the images are the result of this Light, the images are like the shadows. This Light is unseen, human eye can not see it. One git in touch with it by the Spiritual way. Now I do not want to make a really simple thing complicated, but bodies and earthly mortals like you and my old body are empty of this Light. So when I meditate, I focus on this Immortal Light. At least, I know I would see Paradise before this old body become another pile of worm foods, heheheheheh

    I see a lot of similarities in Christian and Buddhism, Book 35 of the Avatamsaka Sutra with the title "The Qualities of the Buddha's Embellishments and Lights" explains it all.
    Your intepretation and mine are diffirent, I can not explain to someone who only use intellectual-psychological mind to understand this Light, after all, this intellectual-psychological is a shadow of this Light also.

    Hallelujah
    M Bolden
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited February 2006
    Sorry. Lost me, about where you said "Mr. Buddhafoot".

    very sorry.
  • ECMECM
    edited February 2006
    Hey Keithg!
    I live in China and have a friend who helps build schools for kids who live in the really poor areas of China. She is Chinese-American, and has a big belly. When she goes to the schools, everyone jokes about how she brings good luck and she laughs and tells them they can pat her belly! No one is offended.

    ;-)
    EM
  • SimonthepilgrimSimonthepilgrim Veteran
    edited February 2006
    M Bolden wrote:
    Mr. Buddhafoot,

    Here is the link to the website.
    http://www.gospelthomas.com/gospelthomas83.html

    I sincerely tell you that most of my fellow churchgoers listen to the Gospel on Sunday down on that St. James church. I do not think that they git the meaning of what Jesus says. Jesus is symnonymous with this Light that is being described in the Gospel, he is not the flesh.

    I myself combine the theory with the practice of Buddhist meditation, that is the practice to transcend Samsara. Just watching my meditation group of people breath in and breath out makes me laff, heheheheh. For once, some of them folks either are hanging onto their bodies or the car garages or their old guns or for whatever the reason. That is the hindrane when they try to practice meditation. Pastor told me the idea is to let go of materialism, even the belief in no-soul will hinder the practitioner because they have to know what are they looking for. Some look for peace, some look for happiness, some look for nothingness, but me. Nah, I look for this Light that Avatamsaka Sutra and the Gospel mentioned.

    BTW, I did not graduated from high school because my farm needed help. Had some fun with them whipper snapples down in old Alabama towns though, heheheh
    But I still can read the Gospel and the Avatamsaka Sutra just fine.

    Hallelujah
    M Bolden


    Mr M Bolden,

    I think that the "Buddhism and Jesus" forum might be more appropriate for this. Also, the Gospel of Thomas needs careful exegesis so that a bald statement of similarity with any Sutra may benefit by more explanation.

    BTW, I agree that 'Thomas' contains a number of notions which are very similar to Buddhist ideas, not least of these being the ahamkara logia.
  • hopehope
    edited February 2006
    Dear M. Bolden

    Somehow you sound familiar. Or its just my hyperactive imagination
    :)
    Hope
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited February 2006
    M Bolden is Namthingy2006, and is also banned. for good.
  • KnitwitchKnitwitch
    edited February 2006
    The language detective strikes again!
  • not1not2not1not2 Veteran
    edited March 2006
    keithg wrote:
    Hello, I was wondering if it is disrespectful to rub the belly of the statues of Buddha. I have done it in the past because a friend told me it was good luck (Although I dont believe in luck). If so I really want to stop doing that, I have read about your beliefs and I have a great respect for it now. Also I would like to know of anything else that I should avoid doing that would be disrespectful towards Buddhists.

    I think you're alright. Now, if the fat buddha statue starts cursing at you, then I would refrain from such actions in the future.

    As a side note, you might 'give him one penny' instead or perhaps enjoy a pastry.
    http://www.zendoshop-uk.com/hotei.html
    This annecdote from an unknown Japanese monk describes Hotei's character and the nature of his life: "He had no desire to call himself a Zen master or to gather many disciples about him. Instead he walked the streets with a big sack into which he would put gifts of candy, fruit, or doughnuts. These he would give to children who gathered around him. He established a kindergarten of the streets. Whenever he met a Zen devotee he would extend his hand and say: 'Give me one penny.' And if anyone asked him to return to a temple to teach others, again he would reply: 'Give me one penny.' Once he was about his work another Zen master happened along and inquired: 'What is the significance of Zen?' Hotei immediately plopped his sack down on the ground in silent answer. 'Then,' asked the other, 'what is the actualization of Zen?' At once the Happy Chinaman swung the sack over his shoulder and continued on his way."

    take care.


    _/\_
    metta
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