Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In Register
Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Why Is There A World Of Forms?

HappyMondaysHappyMondays
edited April 2011 in General Banter
Hello Friends,

Does anyone know of any Buddhist sources/texts/teachings on what the phenomenal world of forms is, exactly? I understand I am asking a HUGE, far-reaching question here, but I am curious if anyone knows of anything on this subject, teaching-wise.

If beneath all is stillness, peace, and emptiness, as Eckhart Tolle so eloquently puts "the canvas upon which all forms arise", then why does it exist at all?

If all is perfection, what is this play of forms, out of emptiness, and why does questioning this basic fundamental peace and goodness even exist? Why do forms exist?

I walk through the world wondering this so often:)

Thank you, best wishes to you all.

Tim



Comments

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    form doesn't arise out of emptiness. Form is spacious already. And that is emptiness.

    Check out the heart sutra. http://kr.buddhism.org/zen/sutras/conze.htm
  • HappyMondaysHappyMondays
    Yes, I see:

    "emptiness does not differ from form, form does not differ from emptiness, whatever is emptiness, that is form"

    Do I understand this experientially? Haha, no. I barely get it intellectually:)

    Perhaps I glimpse it through meditation at times, in a flash, but to know this off the cushion in a clear way has not happened yet.

    Thank you Jeffrey, much appreciated.

  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Your experience has a quality of space. Say you are stressed and then calm down and ventilate. That is seeing the space. Calmness is very much linked to realizing emptiness, but the calm itself is a quality of sensitivity. There is space even in the stressful feelings and adrenaline in the blood stream.

    Its like a rainbow. Theres nothing there but it appears.
  • HappyMondaysHappyMondays
    edited April 2011
    I guess I wonder WHY it appears. Why are we not awake to this always? Why are any beings at all under the illusion of not being awake? Not in the sense of why are they unconscious of their own suffering, but in the sense of why do things exist that are not fully enlightened? Why are some humans/beings/everything not enlightened? Why must we meditate to allow it to come through us?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Causes and conditions. The good news is that the tendency not to notice reality can lift. We don't need to know everything about buddhism we just have to pay attention and get curious. Though thats not to knock studying, just sometimes theres a sense of thinking there is a golden time when you have learned more coming in the future. Well its true in a certain way, but that means we have to pay attention to experience now. Its never too late we can always examine reality in a non-complicated direct seeing.
  • HappyMondaysHappyMondays
    So does this mean scientists will always find smaller and smaller particles as years go by without end?
    I guess they still have to do their jobs:)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    They might not be able to find them.
  • HappyMondaysHappyMondays
    There will no doubt be some heavy head scratching.....!
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    The particles they have found so far are pretty bizarre. They come into being and anhilate, not that I know much but I've seen the pictures of the bubble traces or whatever.
  • ThailandTomThailandTom Veteran
    There are 3 different realsm according to the buddha, the formless realm, the form realm and the realm of desire. These are realms of suffering rather than actually places you can go. They are different types of suffering where the consciousness in involved.

    However, the buddha also spoke of beings within the formless realms that do exist, but we rarely interact with them or have notion of them unless you realise the true nature of reality. Yet, every being in every realm acts/views under delusion and can cause and affect applies throughout.
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    Our world is dependent on our 6 senses. Each person's world is different from others.

    Quote:

    Dwelling at Savatthi. There the Blessed One addressed the monks: "I will teach you the origination of the world & the ending of the world. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

    "As you say, lord," the monks responded to the Blessed One.

    The Blessed One said: "And what is the origination of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world.

    Loka Sutta: The World
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    edited April 2011
    Ooops
  • pegembarapegembara Veteran
    Our world is dependent on our 6 senses. Each person's world is different from others. We attach meaning to what we see, hear, think and the "world" of form "appears". Otherwise what operates is just seeing, hearing, thinking etc. Pure consciousness or awareness of objects arising and falling away on the "canvas". We are prisoners of our senses as it were.

    We are always caught up in these objects or forms and forget about the empty spaces between these objects of sights, sounds, thoughts etc.

    Eg. We get caught up in thoughts and don't notice the silent gaps between them. Stay in the silence and you forget the world. Get hooked on the thoughts and you there is no escape from the "world of forms".

    Quote:
    "The ear is burning, sounds are burning...

    "The nose is burning, odors are burning...

    "The tongue is burning, flavors are burning...

    "The body is burning, tangibles are burning...

    "The mind is burning, ideas are burning, mind-consciousness is burning,

    Adittapariyaya Sutta: The Fire Sermon

  • SabreSabre Veteran
    edited April 2011
    Why is there life? Why is there form? This is something the Buddha probably didn't even know. It's the way it is and not something else.

    "Speculation about [the first moment, purpose, etc., of] the cosmos is an imponderable that is not to be speculated about."
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.077.than.html
  • taiyakitaiyaki Veteran
    because of desire. simple as that.
  • ravkesravkes Veteran
    Nobody knows.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    If beneath all is stillness, peace, and emptiness, as Eckhart Tolle so eloquently puts "the canvas upon which all forms arise", then why does it exist at all?
    Tolle's teachings should not be confused with mainstream Buddhism. Mainstream Buddhism would not necessarily agree with that phenomenological metaphor.

    And I think "nobody knows" is the best answer. It's what's called an "imponderable" in mainstream Buddhism. It's like asking "why isn't what's created perfect in the first place?"

  • zenffzenff Veteran
    The Wikipedia-Sutra can’t really explain it, but at least it gives the question a name.
    Higgs mechanism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_mechanism

    (I tried to get my mind around it, but it’s not my cup of tea really.)

    In Buddhist thought I don’t think you’ll find an answer.
    Buddhism is about ending the cycle of birth and death; not about understanding how it began in the first place.
Sign In or Register to comment.