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Well, Buddhists believe and recognise the benefit of Buddha's teachings. They can stretch their legs out and relax... Forever being suspcious and doubtful will just brings more suffering.
There can't really be more to be said on the matter. How do you argue about why a belief is "true"? well, you DON'T argue. Everyone has to accept the teaching for themselves. No one can convince you.
Belief and Disbelief are both holding a belief. Neither believing nor disbelieving, "not knowing", is no-position, no-view. The "don't know" mind is a tool often used in Buddhism, such as Zen, to point to this Middle Way of holding no view about what is not known.
To me, and most people I think, "atheist" means someone who holds an active belief that there are no gods ("disbelief" in them is synonymous), rather than "not knowing" and keeping an open mind. After all, how do you define someone who has not taken a side/position? Would we call a newborn child an atheist, because they have not developed a belief yet of a God/gods? That would be quite ridiculous.
Unborn children are Atheist. It's only ridiculous if you misunderstand the word, or pigeon hole it as one specific thing; A disbelief or rejection, for example.
Atheism IS someone who holds an active belief there is no God, but it's also the absence of belief, and it's also disbelief. It's all 3 of these things, and historically it's been understood to encompass various positions and non-positions.
It's only in recent times, with an increase in fallacious reasoning(many Agnostics engage in the Golden Mean Fallacy) and the corruption of the English language -- thanks mainly to America -- that absence of belief has been something considered and defined as separate or different to Atheism. Atheism has historically, and still is depending on where you are on the Earth, been considered to be a non-position... Not exclusively, mind.
ReligiousTolerance have a good entry on Atheism, for anyone unfamiliar with these views and non-views being attributed to Atheism:
God is imagination and imagination is God. At least that's how I tend to see it.
A path from being born into a Roman Catholic family and educated in Roman Catholic primary and middle schools to Zen Buddhism (ala Alan Watts/Shunryu Suzuki) to Native American and Wiccan Shamanism to Tibetan Buddhism (Gelugpa Vajrayana) led me to a similar realization to Phoenix's quote:
god is emptiness and emptiness is god.
If emptiness connotes nothingness - that supports atheism.
If emptiness connotes the expansive spaciousness from which all compounded phenomenon (things and experiences) emanate from and return to - that supports a sort of redefined, backhanded, broadly interpreted cosmologistic theism. What?
Clearly, "don't know" can be interpreted as agnosticism but it seems more likely that "anything's possible" fits more neatly in the category.
Theoretically I can't say there is or is not a god in any absolute sense-- this is agnosticism.
But in being unable to say one way or the other, my default position, practically speaking, is atheism. I think, speak and act as if there were no gods.
But, to qualify further, my understanding of Buddhism is simply non-theistic. In other words, the bottom line is that any god is irrelevant, whether he/she/it exists or not. The Four Noble Truth, the Eightfold Path, the three marks of existence, etc. etc. etc. do not even bother to address the question.
I'm not sure if I have quoted this before but, in case I haven't, this is by Ramon Panikkar: "The Nothing out of which God creates everything is God" (Quoted by Br. David Stendl-East)
Fr Panikkar, son of a Catholic mother and a Hindu father said, too: "I left Europe [for India] as a Christian, I discovered I was a Hindu and returned as a Buddhist without ever having ceased to be Christian,"
I don't actually identify as a Buddhist. If someone asks, I'm a Unitarian Universalist and if they seem interested, I may add that I am studying Buddhism and incorporating some of its practices into my life.
FYI, UUism is a liberal religion with no dogma, only core principles like the inherent worth and dignity of every person (details at http://www.uua.org/beliefs/index.shtml).
Anyway, I was raised Roman Catholic but got disillusioned. The nuns at my school were abusive and there was a lot of strife between members of the dominant ethnicity (my family's) and others in the church. Parts of the Old Testament disturbed me but the teachings of Jesus resonated with me, though I rarely saw them in action in that community. Having been to weddings, baptisms at friends' Catholic parishes I suspect that most parishes are more caring communities than mine. But once I moved out of my parents' house I felt no urge to go find one.
I married a man who was born Jewish, though his family never belonged to a synagogue or practised regularly. We were married by a UU minister, a lovely man, and we thought about joining the local UU congregation but didn't do it until one of our children was bullied on the bus for not going to church. I decided I didn't want our children learning about Jesus from bullies on the bus, so we joined the UUs and have never regretted it. It's a nurturing community and the religious education is excellent--allowing our children to learn about various belief systems without coercing their faith into any particular one.
Fast forward to about two years ago. My husband suffered a major stroke at age 48. The stress of caring for him, keeping the household going and raising our two children was getting to me. I had practiced meditation briefly before, but fell off the practice in the sleep deprivation of early parenthood. I remembered how peaceful it had made me feel, so I went back to it. For a time I went to meditation classes, which were helpful, but realized that that particular tradition didn't feel right for me long-term.
So now I'm reading and practicing on my own, doing some modest (time-permitting) daily meditation and trying to be more mindful and compassionate the rest of the time. I'm feeling less anxious and more peaceful.
I've learned a lot here, so I appreciate the work the moderators do to keep it going. Thanks!
"If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby"
The definition, if not messed up by "militant" atheists (who have atheism as their religion - silly as it may be) is quite nicely placed in the word itself: Suffix "A" meaning "not" or "without", "the" from "theos" meaning "a god" and "-ism" meaning a way of thinking.
Atheism is a way of thinking which does not contain god/s. Simple as that.
I'm an atheist because I don't suppose (or as agnostics fear), that there is a god. Gods have no place in my world and I see no reason of bringing any of them into it - Nibbana comes not from a god and requires nothing but following The Way. Any supernatural being which we fear may (or in cases may not) intervene with our lives takes away focus for no good reason at all.
"I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours" — Stephen F. Roberts
Yup, as others have said, atheism isn't a lack of belief, or opposition to belief, in religion. It's simply a lack of belief in deities. As such, atheism and Buddhism aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. One of the many things which sets Buddhism apart from other religions is it's willingness to accept other religious and philosophical viewpoints. So to answer your question, I imagine many buddhists also consider themselves atheists.
What do you see in Buddhism that you don't see elsewhere?
Super simple: Common Sense (that most uncommon of substances in the universe). Buddhism is my default way of seeing the world, although for the first several decades of my life I wasn't aware of that. The belief system that I developed more or less on my own while I was growing up as a Christian turned out to be essentially Buddhism without a lot of the trappings. Once I discovered that other people saw things in a similar way, it was purely natural for me to begin to study it and identify with it.
Honestly, I consider myself Buddhist, Christian, and Muslim. I am a theist, but a slight deist. I believe in a creator (and that all religions are really worshiping the same thing, although my fellow Christians and Muslims would definitely disagree with me) that watches over the universe, but intervenes little, unless something is truly being disturbed. But I believe that this creator will communicate, it just wont tell you what to do, and what is right or wrong. It wants us (I think) to figure that out on our own.
I chose to follow Buddhism because a lot of it sounds like the way I perceive the world, but it has a name. I absolutely love it. The tolerance of other religions, and the emphasis on compassion.
I was raised Christian, but in a very relaxed home that didn't put too much emphasis on it. Honestly I didn't really know much about it until I was about fourteen. At first I didn't like how the people were so judgemental and thought that their way was the ONLY way. But then I read the bible myself, and I realized that I shouldn't let the followers scare me away from a religion. Christianity is based on the bible, not the random beliefs of the people (like homosexuality being a 'sin', which is not mentioned anywhere in the bible by God). And, although I believe a lot of it is just a collection of stories, I love the emphasis on compasion that Jesus had. It inspires me, just like SiddharthaGuatama inspires me. Mohamed as well.
I follow Islam because I love the emphasis on worship. For those who don't believe in a creator, it might seem silly, but I just feel that, if there is a creator out there, I should thank them as much as possible. Like my parents. I am grateful to them and respect them. I also believe in God because I was in a car accident a few months ago. I was in the passenger seat, and my friend was driving. Another car was coming out of a side street, but instead of stopping, it slammed into my side. Right before it happened (because everyone in the car knew what was coming next) I felt something tell me (outside of my own head) that everything would be okay. That I wouldn't die, or even get a scratch on me. That voice was right. Ever since then I have had a deeper belief in a creator (or protector) of some kind.
I'm sort of a mix. It all started for me with "magick". I was into a"magick" as I loved wizards and stuff,so I practiced this and pagan stuff, however I have been raised an Anglican Christian. Then my Mum started getting into spiritual stuff, like New age things and reading Dalai Lama books etc. So, then when I left magick I got into this, Buddhism attracting mre more than others. I find life hard and worry a lot. However, I felt guilty considering becoming solely buddhist. I felt like I was rejecting God anfd i still do if try to devote myslef compeltely to Buddhim and not mix. However, I realize now that all religions lead to truth. I agree with Gandhi who said that all religiopns are different paths converging on the same point. What does it matter what path we choose? So I found Self-realization fellowship, so now I try to practice Thich Nhat hanh's teachings, explaining emtpiness and wisdom in such a way that I can actual;ly more or less understand it! SO I do that and I meditate and commune with God daily through meditation. That's how my spiritual practice has come about. I feel I could not live without these teachings otherwise I would be overwhekmed by life. I helps me to live and cope and deal with the suffering in life. Peace
If god(s) do exist, they are subject to the three marks of existence: dukkha, impermanence, and no-self (and, by extension, emptiness and co-dependent arising)... which is contrary to most western definitions of a creator-god...
I am personally an Agnostic-Atheist, for the time being.
You can't be both.
Without seeking to be difficult ... which I sincerely do not - one can be neither, in a pragmatic sense ... it is an ambiguous position though, and means in practice, like me, that you can align practice with either position in a philosophical sense. The critical factor is not clinging to either view rather seeing our progress in relation to how practice based on our beliefs enables us to function and interact with others.
I personally think that it is impossible for any two people to believe identical religions, therefore names are just groups of people who believe similar things to a greater or lesser extent. Buddhism is different because in a way it acknowledges that, "Believe Nothing, no matter where you read it nor whom has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." -Buddha. It also focuses more on the theory that it is more important to find the best way to treat the arrow wound than asking where the arrow came from or what the bow was made of.
To me this makes sense to me, and the precepts make sense, I agree with them because the follow my opinions, I follow them because I choose to.
Often agnostics not only have the view that they do not know, but they also believe that others should act a certain way due to their not knowing. That is they are critical of others with faith. Therefore agnosticism is an idealogy and a belief in some cases. Granting that is the case agnosticism would not be the ultimate goal of buddhism which includes relaxation from views. You can tell you are not relaxed from views if it is vexing to have a discussion with people of faith.
Because, as Carl Sagan once said "An Atheist must know a lot more than I do"
Since nothing is certain, including the presence of supernatural beings/gods then I cannot bring myself to full-heartedly not believe in them, doing so requires just as much faith as any other religion. Without them being empirically disproved at least. So I choose not to think about it, when an Atheist walks up to me and says "There is no God" to me it is the exact same thing as someone walking up to me and saying "There is a God"
So you know what? it is entirely a moot point, to choose one side of the fence or the other. I'd rather sit peacefully on my fence and choose my own way rather than submitting to a false truth.
Athiests are just as tired as thiests, they are all trapped in the concept of "have" or "have not". Why not relax and start working on one's morality and concentration?
Oh and, not worrying about "hell" is probably the sillier option to take.
Comments
Sadly but YES.
I don't know what unborn child is.
However, I know that in 90% this child will follow indoctrination of the culture or society it was born to. :grr:
Even if this child is lucky enough to escape this influence there will be only limited ways it can do it.
Society will label . There were very few free thinkers in the human history.
The rest of humanity followed ideas near them.
What I respect about Buddhism is the tolerance and emphasis on individual reasoning and emotions.
Still, even Buddhism did not escaped politicians in robes who claim that they know the ultimate truth and try to bend others.
god is emptiness and emptiness is god.
If emptiness connotes nothingness - that supports atheism.
If emptiness connotes the expansive spaciousness from which all compounded phenomenon (things and experiences) emanate from and return to - that supports a sort of redefined, backhanded, broadly interpreted cosmologistic theism. What?
Clearly, "don't know" can be interpreted as agnosticism but it seems more likely that "anything's possible" fits more neatly in the category.
But in being unable to say one way or the other, my default position, practically speaking, is atheism. I think, speak and act as if there were no gods.
But, to qualify further, my understanding of Buddhism is simply non-theistic. In other words, the bottom line is that any god is irrelevant, whether he/she/it exists or not. The Four Noble Truth, the Eightfold Path, the three marks of existence, etc. etc. etc. do not even bother to address the question.
"The Nothing out of which God creates everything is God"
(Quoted by Br. David Stendl-East)
Fr Panikkar, son of a Catholic mother and a Hindu father said, too:
"I left Europe [for India] as a Christian, I discovered I was a Hindu and returned as a Buddhist without ever having ceased to be Christian,"
FYI, UUism is a liberal religion with no dogma, only core principles like the inherent worth and dignity of every person (details at http://www.uua.org/beliefs/index.shtml).
Anyway, I was raised Roman Catholic but got disillusioned. The nuns at my school were abusive and there was a lot of strife between members of the dominant ethnicity (my family's) and others in the church. Parts of the Old Testament disturbed me but the teachings of Jesus resonated with me, though I rarely saw them in action in that community. Having been to weddings, baptisms at friends' Catholic parishes I suspect that most parishes are more caring communities than mine. But once I moved out of my parents' house I felt no urge to go find one.
I married a man who was born Jewish, though his family never belonged to a synagogue or practised regularly. We were married by a UU minister, a lovely man, and we thought about joining the local UU congregation but didn't do it until one of our children was bullied on the bus for not going to church. I decided I didn't want our children learning about Jesus from bullies on the bus, so we joined the UUs and have never regretted it. It's a nurturing community and the religious education is excellent--allowing our children to learn about various belief systems without coercing their faith into any particular one.
Fast forward to about two years ago. My husband suffered a major stroke at age 48. The stress of caring for him, keeping the household going and raising our two children was getting to me. I had practiced meditation briefly before, but fell off the practice in the sleep deprivation of early parenthood. I remembered how peaceful it had made me feel, so I went back to it. For a time I went to meditation classes, which were helpful, but realized that that particular tradition didn't feel right for me long-term.
So now I'm reading and practicing on my own, doing some modest (time-permitting) daily meditation and trying to be more mindful and compassionate the rest of the time. I'm feeling less anxious and more peaceful.
I've learned a lot here, so I appreciate the work the moderators do to keep it going. Thanks!
The definition, if not messed up by "militant" atheists (who have atheism as their religion - silly as it may be) is quite nicely placed in the word itself:
Suffix "A" meaning "not" or "without", "the" from "theos" meaning "a god" and "-ism" meaning a way of thinking.
Atheism is a way of thinking which does not contain god/s. Simple as that.
I'm an atheist because I don't suppose (or as agnostics fear), that there is a god. Gods have no place in my world and I see no reason of bringing any of them into it - Nibbana comes not from a god and requires nothing but following The Way. Any supernatural being which we fear may (or in cases may not) intervene with our lives takes away focus for no good reason at all.
"I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours"
— Stephen F. Roberts
I chose to follow Buddhism because a lot of it sounds like the way I perceive the world, but it has a name. I absolutely love it. The tolerance of other religions, and the emphasis on compassion.
I was raised Christian, but in a very relaxed home that didn't put too much emphasis on it. Honestly I didn't really know much about it until I was about fourteen. At first I didn't like how the people were so judgemental and thought that their way was the ONLY way. But then I read the bible myself, and I realized that I shouldn't let the followers scare me away from a religion. Christianity is based on the bible, not the random beliefs of the people (like homosexuality being a 'sin', which is not mentioned anywhere in the bible by God). And, although I believe a lot of it is just a collection of stories, I love the emphasis on compasion that Jesus had. It inspires me, just like SiddharthaGuatama inspires me. Mohamed as well.
I follow Islam because I love the emphasis on worship. For those who don't believe in a creator, it might seem silly, but I just feel that, if there is a creator out there, I should thank them as much as possible. Like my parents. I am grateful to them and respect them. I also believe in God because I was in a car accident a few months ago. I was in the passenger seat, and my friend was driving. Another car was coming out of a side street, but instead of stopping, it slammed into my side. Right before it happened (because everyone in the car knew what was coming next) I felt something tell me (outside of my own head) that everything would be okay. That I wouldn't die, or even get a scratch on me. That voice was right. Ever since then I have had a deeper belief in a creator (or protector) of some kind.
It all started for me with "magick". I was into a"magick" as I loved wizards and stuff,so I practiced this and pagan stuff, however I have been raised an Anglican Christian. Then my Mum started getting into spiritual stuff, like New age things and reading Dalai Lama books etc. So, then when I left magick I got into this, Buddhism attracting mre more than others. I find life hard and worry a lot. However, I felt guilty considering becoming solely buddhist. I felt like I was rejecting God anfd i still do if try to devote myslef compeltely to Buddhim and not mix. However, I realize now that all religions lead to truth. I agree with Gandhi who said that all religiopns are different paths converging on the same point. What does it matter what path we choose?
So I found Self-realization fellowship, so now I try to practice Thich Nhat hanh's teachings, explaining emtpiness and wisdom in such a way that I can actual;ly more or less understand it! SO I do that and I meditate and commune with God daily through meditation. That's how my spiritual practice has come about. I feel I could not live without these teachings otherwise I would be overwhekmed by life. I helps me to live and cope and deal with the suffering in life.
Peace
To me this makes sense to me, and the precepts make sense, I agree with them because the follow my opinions, I follow them because I choose to.
Since nothing is certain, including the presence of supernatural beings/gods then I cannot bring myself to full-heartedly not believe in them, doing so requires just as much faith as any other religion. Without them being empirically disproved at least. So I choose not to think about it, when an Atheist walks up to me and says "There is no God" to me it is the exact same thing as someone walking up to me and saying "There is a God"
So you know what? it is entirely a moot point, to choose one side of the fence or the other. I'd rather sit peacefully on my fence and choose my own way rather than submitting to a false truth.
Oh and, not worrying about "hell" is probably the sillier option to take.