Tilopa Camellia

Floating_Abu

http://www.pbase.com/1heart/tilopa_camellia

taiyaki

the grass grows all by itself. heh

DhammaDhatu

indeed, the stream of Nibbana also flows & grows by itself, like a river flows & grows towards the sea

if our mind lets go of all judgments, our mind can flow & grow towards Nibbana, by itself, without any effort

but be very careful here

when it actually starts flowing, please do not think "God" or "The Divine" is making it flow & grow

oh dear

Whoknows

Just read this, this morning in Confessions of a Buddhist Athiest by Stephen Bachelor: (in Stephen's words, referring to Nanavira's text):
....he had become a "stream entrant" and thereby become "independent of the opinions of others regarding the Buddha's teaching".

Where does this association come from?

DhammaDhatu

Personally, I am not sure Nanavira was a stream entrant. His mind did comprehend Dependent Origination. It probably did comprehend the egoless state. But Nanavira still believed in rebirth and committed suicide because he believed "he" was a stream enterer and by committing suicide (instead of returning to the West for medical care) "he" would have a better rebirth.

Apart from that, the independence of understanding the Dhamma is found in a number of suttas, such as the Upali Sutta and the Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta.

However, as stated in the Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta, one who comprehends the Dhamma has no views about "self" regarding the past, present or future.

Nanavira experience did not accord to this. Nanavira seemed like he just went troppo, zombied out in the jungle, suffering from spaced out deliriums & hallucinations.

But then, maybe not. Who knows?

:eek2:

DhammaDhatu

Then the Blessed One gave the householder Upàli the gradual Teaching starting with giving gifts, becoming virtuous, about the heavenly states, the dangers of sensuality, the vileness of defiling things and benefits of giving up.

Then the Blessed One knew that the mind of the householder Upàli was ready, malleable, free of hindrances, lofty and pleased and the Blessed One gave the special message of the Enlightened Ones: Unpleasantness, its arising, its cessation and the path to the cessation of unpleasantness.

Like a pure, clean cloth would take a dye evenly. In that same manner, the dustless, stainless eye of the Teaching arose to the householder Upàli, seated there itself. Whatever rises has the nature of ceasing.

The householder Upàli, then and there mastered that Teaching, knew and penetrated it. Doubts dispelled become self confident attained that state where he did not want a teacher, any more, in the Dispensation of the Blessed One.

He said. 'Venerable sir, we will go now, there is much work to be done. '

'Householder, do as you think it fit. '

http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/2Majjhima-Nikaya/Majjhima2/056-upali-e1.html

:om:

DhammaDhatu

(Personal Knowledge)

23] “Bhikkhus, knowing and seeing in this way, would you run back to the past thus: ‘Were we in the past? Were we not in the past? What were we in the past? How were we in the past? Having been what, what did we become in the past?'?” - “No venerable sir.” - “Knowing and seeing in this way, would you run forward to the future thus: ‘Shall we be in the future? Shall we not be in the future? What shall we be in the future? How shall we be in the future? Having been what, what shall become in the future?'?” - “No, venerable sir.” - “Knowing and seeing in this way, would you now be inwardly perplexed about the present thus: ‘Am I? Am I not? What am I? How am I? Where has this being come from? Where will it go?'?” -“No, venerable sir.”

24] “Bhikkhus, knowing and seeing in this way, would you speak thus: ‘The Teacher is respected by us. We speak as we do out of respect for the Teacher'?” -“No, venerable sir.” - “Knowing and seeing in this way, would you speak thus: ‘The Recluse says this, and we speak thus at the bidding of the Recluse'?” - “No, venerable sir.” - “Knowing and seeing in this way, would you acknowledge another teacher?” - “No, venerable sir.” - “Knowing and seeing in this way, would you return to the observances, tumultuous debates, and auspicious signs of ordinary recluses and brahmins, taking them as the core [of the holy life]?” - “No, venerable sir.” - “Do you speak only of what you have known, seen, and understood for yourselves?” - “Yes, venerable sir.”

25] “Good, bhikkhus. So you have been guided by me with this Dhamma, which is visible here and now, immediately effective, inviting inspection, onward leading, to be experienced by the wise for themselves. For it was with reference to this that it has been said: ‘Bhikkhus, this Dhamma is visible here and now, immediately effective, inviting inspection, onward leading, to be experienced by the wise for themselves.'

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books9/Bhikkhu_Bodhi_Mahatanhasankhaya_Sutta.htm

:om:

Whoknows

Thank you very much Dharma Dhatu, I appreciate it.

:bowdown: