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buddhist monasteries
hi, i'm new to the forum so bear with me. i'm curious if anyone knows of a good list of buddhist temples and monasteries in the US. i'm a new buddhist, but i've studied enough to know that i wish to become a monk. i had applied at Fo Guang Shan Hsi Lai, but http://www.foguangshantruth.com/ has scared me off. i don't have a preference of sect, except that i don't feel like vajrayana buddhism is right for me. so if anyone can help me out, i'd be very appreciative. thanks in advance!
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We have a Zen Buddhist monk on Forum, Reverend Genryu, (ZenMonk Genryu) and another, Palzang, is a monk in the Nyingma tradition.
Yet another member, Elohim is considering going to study for four years in Thailand....
There's an awful lot more you will have to know about before making such a big decision.
You are not wrong, by any means, and I would not try to deter you, if it REALLY is your heart's desire... But it's a long, arduous vocation, and from what you say in your post, I am surmising (perhaps wrongly) that the idea attracts you, without your having really gone into it very deeply....
Good luck.... ask those I have mentioned for their input. It can only help.
Oh - and pardon my manners - welcome to our on-line Sangha.
next, i'd like to know what i need to know before making this decision. i know thats a doozy of a thing to ask, perhaps you could point me to some info online? i've been thinking about becoming a monk for over a year now and i feel i have a good grasp on what it entails. i also realize that the conceptions i have about monkhood aren't 100% correct either, and that monk life will be different from what i expect. that said, i still feel its the proper move in my life at this point. with all that said, i'm still considering your point.
But what do you know, understand and believe of the Four Noble Truths?
What do you Know, understand and believe of the Eightfold Path?
What do you know of the Lotus Sutra, the Diamond Sutra and the Kalama Sutra?
What do you know about Taking Refuge and adhering to the precepts?
I live in France, and it's nearly half past one in the morning here, so I'm afraid I'm going to get some sleep now (!) but do as I suggested - contact the three gentlemen whose names I gave you....
And give me the answers to the above... I'd be delighted to read them in the morning!!
Certainly if you get ordained in the Zen tradition it's a death sentence so to speak. Whereas in the Therevada traditions it's quite normal to ordain and then disrobe, in Zen, whatever you do, once ordained you are from that moment a monk (using the term generically here to apply to both male and female), your life is for the benefit of all beings and there is no turning back. Even if you never wear the robes again and try to hide somewhere, you will never cease being a monk. You are, from then on, a resource for all beings for ever. And forever means forever.
Kind of look at it like you're car shopping. You're going to look at a number of different makes and models - learning more and more throughout this process - before picking one you like.
No sense in buying the '77 Ford Pinto and then find out you could have bought a Corvette!
Not that I'm saying anyone's belief system here is a '77 Ford Pinto while other beliefs are Corvetttes.
Wait, I guess that is what I'm saying.
Anyway, there is nothing wrong with looking and learning before you pick. It's a great learning process and may bring you a lot of joy.
But, if zenmonk said Zen is a death sentence - I'd put that one lower on my list of options
-bf
I think I have a suggestion for you.
How about moving your white pawn on b7 to b8?
That way you can regain your Queen.
Jason
You feelin' okay? That post was pretty whacked even for me.
What have you been doing today?
-bf
How cheeky!
I love you guys.
Jason
Don't be discouraged, my friend. Some people realize their paths very quickly. There's nothing wrong in that. Becoming a monk will, I'm sure, be an arduous path but a fruitful one as well. Learning about Buddhism will be one of the funnest (I know that's not a word) things you'll probably ever do. It has calmed my fears, cooled my head and opened my heart. And I've only been studying for a few years.
My only advice would be to learn as much as you can about Buddhism in general and about the different schools of thought and keep asking yourself why you want to become a monk. You must come up with an honest answer that will satisfy you, and you'll have to keep asking this question until you do (or don't, whatever the case may be).
You and I are in the same boat (well, all of us are, but that's a whole different thread) in that my ultimate goal will also be to take refuge in the three jewels; the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. But I'm a woman, and that presents a different set of challenges. However, the desire to serve is the same.
With great love and respect,
Your friend,
Brigid.
(If you want to, we have a Buddha-babes chit-chat corner here for the ladies on the forum, but unlike the gentlemen's country club thread, (where it seems we are not wanted!) men are welcome to come in, browse and contribute... I just warn them they'll be bound to see 'girly' stuff in there...!!)
``In Buddhism, women have had a mixed history. There have been moments
where there have been important women teachers and there are also many
moments women have been subject to prejudice,'' said Janet Gyatso, a
professor of religion at Amherst College in Amherst, Mass., who is
researching Buddhist feminism. ``In general, there is far more male
education and more male masters.'' This quote comes from:
tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/2001/7/2_8.html
"There are three levels of nuns' ordination: bhikshuni, siksamana and sramanerika. To receive full ordination, that is to become a bhikshuni, one needs to be ordained by both ten bhikshunis and ten bhikshus (fully ordained monks). Giving the lower ordinations does not require as many people. As a result, the situation of ordained women differs in various Buddhist countries due to the level of ordination available to them there.
Although the full ordination for men (bhikshu) spread to Tibet, that for women did not because it was difficult for so many bhikshunis to travel over the Himalayas. Thus only the first level of ordination, the sramanerika, spread to Tibet. In later years, the bhikshuni ordination died out in Sri Lanka due to political repression of Buddhism. Currently, Sri Lankan women can take the ten sramanerika precepts. In Thailand, Cambodia and Burma, the men can become bhikshus, yet the female ordained practitioners are in a kind of limbo situation. While they are not really lay people because they have taken celibacy vows, they have not taken the ten precepts of the sramanerika (novice).
The lineage of full ordination, bhikshuni, is flourishing in Chinese and Korean Buddhism, and there has been a resurgence of interest in it among women of all the Buddhist traditions. Some of us have gone to Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea or the USA to take the bhikshuni ordination because it isn't presently available in our own Buddhist tradition, and people have begun to discuss how to make it available in these traditions in the future. Introducing the bhikshuni ordination has to be done slowly because it involves major shifts of thinking in the traditions that haven't had the full ordination of women for many centuries. " This quote comes from: Ven. Thubten Chodron's Home page:thubtenchodron.org/Publications/InterfaithInsights/II_LifeAsABuddhistNun.html
If you study Burma and Sri Lanka you will find some very sad facts about the place of Buddhist nuns in their societies. And yes, unfortunately, you will still meet some Buddhist monks who simply do not accept the ordination of women. Sad, but true. These are reflective of differences in cultural and societal perspectives. They have nothing to do with true Buddhism. Still, they are hurdles over which no man will have to jump. Therein lies the difference.
With love and respect,
Brigid.
That being said though, there are still sexist attitudes and practices that affect women in the Dharma in these countries, due to culture not to the Dharma, but real and significant challenges nonetheless. A very good first person view of this in Japanese Zen is 'The Wild, White Goose: The Diary of a Female Zen Priest' by Roshi Jiyu Kennett, a Western Women who went through all the ranks of the Zen priesthood, enabling other women to do the same. She is also the founder of the Order Of Buddhist Contemplatives, which now has Soto monasteries and centers in several countries and is a fine Western expression of Zen with many women teachers.
In gratitude,
Brigid.
P.S. I find referring to you as "zenmonk" a little uncomfortable, ie; disrespectful. Is there a better way I could address you?
As do we all.....:o
I wondered what this meant, and yet another person explained that it's a Tibetan term of endearment... stick it on the end of any name, and it demonstrates respect and affection...
Simon-La, Brigid-La, Genryu-La...
Everybody-La!:)
And, Genryu, you're absolutely correct regarding full Bhikshuni ordination in the Tibetan tradition. And, (gasp), not only that, but I may be able to do it all right here in Canada. Ideally, of course, I'd prefer to spend some study time in India, but I'm too disabled to travel that far etc. Gampo Abbey in Nova Scotia offers full training in the four stages; candidate, pre-novice (parmarabjung), novice (sramanerika)and then full bhikshuni, taking approx. 4 and a half years. (Thranga Rinpoche gives monastic ordination here.) The training is primarily in the Karma Kagyu and Nyingma lineages and the main meditation practices are shamatha and vipashyana. They follow Trungpa Rinpoche's guidlines designed for western students.
Of course, this is a very long way off. I still have too much to learn and I will wait until my parents die before going forth. They are in their seventies now and I'm in no rush to see them go. They are the last of my relationship attachments. And there is always my physical disability. Monastic life may be too physically demanding. I'm looking into it closely. In any case, I'll try not to get too attached to the idea and keep practicing and learning more and more each day.
federica, that was hilarious! Loved it! Couldn't do it, but loved it!
And thank you, Simon, I like bhante, too. I'm not familiar with it.
You've hit the nail on the head there - I would say that in the West at least, self acceptance is one of the biggest challenges for all of us. The desire to change or rather to 'improve' for self gratification is often caught up with or confused with that and the realisation that there is the possibility of transformation. The fact is that any genuine path or way starts with the realisation that something really does seem to be wrong, something is out of wack and something needs to be done about that. The self improvement mentality though, when applied to spirituality often contradicts itself because it really can't fully admit that there's anything wrong with the self. It even goes so far as to reify or exalt the self - 'Whatever I do is okay and a reflection of the divine', and so forth.
In reality, you are correct, everything IS as it should be, but that doesn't mean it doesn't need work on it, or that there isn't the possibility to transform. As Shunryu Suzuki Roshi once put it so well, "You're all perfect just as you are, but you could do with a little improvement." On one level, we are all manifesting that perfection of things as they are, even when we're being selfish and ignorant and churlish, but unless we truly see that, nothing changes, there's no transformation. There's nothing there to nourish or inform, no substance behind the image. And this isn't done by either an effort of will, or by telling ourselves how wonderful we are, as some sort of mantra that will work on us if only we keep repeating it.
The transformation comes through the body even more than the mind (though in truth there is no separation and they are one) and is through the practice, through sitting for a long time and seeing just how this 'self' is from moment to moment, through practice in daily life, through learning to be with things by learning to be with things. It does sound paradoxical but we do it by doing it, which is what sitting practice is the model and manifestation for, or as the great 13th Century Japanese Zen master Dogen put it,
“We intrinsically have the countenance of the person of suchness and so need not be anxious about the essence of suchness. Because anxiety is itself the essence of suchness, it is not anxiety. Moreover, we need not be startled by the essence of suchness being this way. Even if suchness appears startling and suspicious, it is suchness all the same. There is that suchness by which you ought to be startled…”
—from “Suchness,”
And,
You should therefore cease from practice based on intellectual understanding, pursuing words and following after speech, and learn the backward step that turns your light inwardly to illuminate your self. Body and mind of themselves will drop away, and your original face will be manifest. If you want to attain suchness, you should practice suchness without delay.
- From Genjokoan - The Koan of Everyday Life
But it should not be premised on an intellectual idea. It should be allowed to occur naturally.
Yes, this is the challenge; my western analytical mind. I understand doing by doing. And transformation and understanding coming only by doing, by practicing, by living it. The intellectual neural pathways are ego based and reside in the physical brain. They can't reach.
It will take a long time to get over my western intellectual mind. I should start immediately. I've been meditating on ideas; compassion, acceptance etc. I've been only vaguely meditating on emptiness. I'll need instruction. I'll research this. (This is what happens when one tries to learn how to play the piano by without instruction.) :smilec:
Thank you, Genryu.
Meditation - The Seat of Enlightenment
It has some good illustrations of postures and a handy little animation of proper breathing too.
Fede, LOVE your new avatar!
Anyway, I would strongly discourage anyone from just rushing out and getting ordained. It is possible to do so, but I can almost guarantee you'll end up regretting it. I've seen people get ordained before they were ready or really understood what it was they were signing on to, and they almost all have dropped their robes, which is something you really don't want to do. The first thing to do is to find a teacher or a center you strongly identify with. Then immerse yourself in the practice, learn as much as you can, and decide whether Buddhism is really for you or not. Then, and only then, can you even start thinking about ordination. It also depends on the status of ordination in your particular lineage or center. At our temple, we have nearly 40 ordained, so there is a large community for support. If you're going to be the only ordained person in the community, I'd think twice because it will be extremely difficult to make it without the support of fellow ordained sangha. And if you think you can just become a monk or nun and go off on your own, well, then you're really way, way, way off beam and need to pull up short and reconsider the whole thing.
It is true that some Tibetan Buddhist women have taken bhikshuni ordination, but not within the Tibetan tradition. They've had to go to Taiwan or somewhere where the tradition still exists to take that ordination. It ceased to exist in Tibet when King Langdarma, who was anti-Buddhist, eliminated (i.e. killed) all the nuns, so the full ordination lineage for women was broken and never restored. Our nuns have requested full ordination vows from H.H. Penor Rinpoche, the head of our lineage, but he has been unable to find a pure tradition that can trace its lineage back to the Buddha. So take that for what it's worth.
Palzang
"Gampo Abbey in Nova Scotia offers full training in the four stages; candidate, pre-novice (parmarabjung), novice (sramanerika)and then full bhikshuni, taking approx. 4 and a half years. (Thranga Rinpoche gives monastic ordination here.) The training is primarily in the Karma Kagyu and Nyingma lineages and the main meditation practices are shamatha and vipashyana. They follow Trungpa Rinpoche's guidlines designed for western students."
I got this information from the article Life in Gampo Abbey-Western Style by Bhikshuni Tsultrim Palmo, (director of Gampo Abbey foe some years and is now retreat master for the three year retreat) from "Blossoms of the Dharma: Living as a Buddhist Nun" by Thubten Chodron. Am I mistaken? This book was published in 1999. Has something changed?
I am confused, Palzang. How do Tenzin Palmo and your own spiritual director fit in?
Palzang
http://www.thubtenchodron.org/BuddhistNunsMonasticLife/the present status of the bhikshuni ordination
I would also recommend Vicki MacKenzie's book, 'Cave in the Snow' about Tenzin Palmo, for those who are interested. These too may be of interest:
http://www.tenzinpalmo.com/
Tenzin Palmo Photo Gallery
haha, too true! i haven't really taken a step back. more like i've paused a brief moment before steping forward. thanks though. its important for me to remember that.
Yes, I read and loved "Cave in the Snow". It was one of the first books I read on this subject and there are times when her words still ring in my head. It's a fascinating book.
Also, Ven. Thubten Chodron's homepage is full of great info and was an essential resource for me. Don't you love the computer age? It would have taken me years to find all the info I'm looking for (as well as considerable travel) before the internet.
Palzang,
"If you're asking about the Gampo Abbey story, that's a different tradition. H.H. Penor Rinpoche is the head of our lineage, not Trungpa Rinpoche (as much as I respect him), so that's who calls the shots for us, and he says he has not discovered a pure bhikshuni tradition in order to reinstate the full ordination for women."
A clarification: Ven. Thrangu Rinpoche is the abbot at Gampo Abbey, not Trunga Rinpoche as he is no longer a monastic.
To anyone who might be reading this thread and not posting: I will be getting in touch with Gampo Abbey this coming week and will post what I discover on this thread. This may turn out to be academic info for me (I'm still worried that my physical body may not be suitable for the monastic life) but it could prove useful for other women reading this thread.
Also, I think the info might be on Ven. Thubten Chodron's site. See link above in Genryu's post.
Hang in there, capn!
Well, Trungpa Rinpoche died in 1987, I think it was, and has already been reborn in Tibet. But the Abbey was started by Trungpa, which is what I meant to say and wasn't very clear about. Sorry! I know Ven. Thrangu Rinpoche, and he's an excellent teacher, BTW.
Palzang
Oh yeah, it's all coming back to me now... I actually spoke with Thubten Chodron about this at the Western Monastic Conference last September at Shasta Abbey, and while it is true that some Vajrayana traditions have adopted the Chinese bhikshuni tradition, our particular lineage hasn't and probably won't. I don't know why. I think His Holiness Penor Rinpoche isn't yet convinced it can trace its lineage back to the Buddha, but I'm not sure. Obviously no one asked my opinion!
Palzang
Palzang
I'm absolutely delighted to be in contact with someone who actually knows these holy people whom I've only read about! This is a wondrous world we live in. I am full of hope for the future.
Brigid
Palzang