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A National Standardized Curriculum for all Public Schools

zidanguszidangus Veteran
edited May 2011 in General Banter
I was reading an article on the way in which America allows each state the freedom to create their own curriculum under limited federal regulation. This is opposite to what happens in the UK where the government has one national standardized curriculum for all public schools. I might be biased here, but isn't the UK's method , well better ? I mean just reading a brief overview of the way its done in America, it seems subjects which are taught such as creation theory differ dramitcally depending on the state you are in. Anyway seems strange that there is not a national standardized curriculum that public schools must follow.

Comments

  • You have to understand that the US is composed of (essentially) 50 separate countries with one central government. We have 50 different sets of laws for almost everything. From car insurance to real estate, each state has its own unique laws. Most are very similar, some are identical. But they're individual to the states.

    Education is actually run very much more at the local level than even at the state level. I graduated from a school district that had one high school, one middle school, and three elementary schools. Less than 2000 students in total. And it had its own authority to create its own curriculum. The Bush administration got something called "No Child Left Behind" passed, which, despite their avowed intention to reduce the size of government, butts the nose of the feds into every local school board in the country - just enough to cause chaos and cost local governments a lot of money to comply.

    Interestingly, before the Civil War, the US was referred to as "these United States". After the war, it became "the United States". Subtle, but telling. The war was fought over states' rights, couched in terms of slavery. But the underlying issue was the rights of the states to do what they want to. Many people still adhere very strongly to that philosophy.
  • I think America has it right. Small government is better, localised laws and curriculum is better. Unfortunately it does leave room for some States having an inferior education and inferior laws. But I'd rather small and localised decision making and control.

    This is how the government take away control from people and communities. The creation-theory is bad but so is a Big Government London-based authoritarian Plutocracy where the population is practically powerless.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited May 2011
    I think America has it right. Small government is better, localised laws and curriculum is better. Unfortunately it does leave room for some States having an inferior education and inferior laws. But I'd rather small and localised decision making and control.

    This is how the government take away control from people and communities. The creation-theory is bad but so is a Big Government London-based authoritarian Plutocracy where the population is practically powerless.
    In the UK if anyone reads a parties manifesto then they know exactly what a parties proposals on education are before they are elected, so in this sense the population do have power to hold a government to account on what type of educational system they have and they can vote for the the party which have education reforms which they agree with.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    there's no one-size-fits-all blueprint. For ex, Gypsy says localized laws are better. Yes and no. You need federal standards to eliminate discrimination, for example. And Creationism AFAIK isn't part of the school curriculum, unless I've missed something. Well, it hasn't displaced science, maybe some reactionary states have managed to get it included in addition to science/evolution.

    \When the US created a Dept. of Education on the federal level (was that under Carter?), the idea was to standardize a basic curriculum and have a national standard as far as achievement levels for each grade go. But it's gotten messy. And you need flexibility to some extent, so that counties with predominantly African-American students can have African American history taught to them in a meaningful way, for example. I now African -American parents who said that having their kids forced to go to White schools didn't work out. The kids got taught White history, and Black history was just a token "Black history month". I think everyone should be taught everyone's history. But a national standard would likely favor the dominant ethnicity in the country.
  • I think America has it right. Small government is better, localised laws and curriculum is better. Unfortunately it does leave room for some States having an inferior education and inferior laws. But I'd rather small and localised decision making and control.

    This is how the government take away control from people and communities. The creation-theory is bad but so is a Big Government London-based authoritarian Plutocracy where the population is practically powerless.
    In the UK if anyone reads a parties manifesto then they know exactly what a parties proposals on education are before they are elected, so in this sense the population do have power to hold a government to account on what type of educational system they have and they can vote for the the party which have education reforms which they agree with.
    Sorry, I was speaking generally on big government. But particularly in regards to Education, well I'm sure you can find many examples of Parties going back on their word. Or if you prefer, outright lying to get votes.

    I can't for the life of my remember his name but there was a Politician on TV around the time the student fee protests were taking place and he said, to paraphrase, "It doesn't matter if everyone descends on London to protest the cuts, we've reached a decision and won't be swayed". Which is my main issue with big centralised government in general, it's much harder to effect change.

    We have Democratic voting, but that's about it. Some direct involvement and authority on trivial issues, like what colour the local buses are painted.

    As for the issue at hand specifically, I'm not sure you can blame the model. Plenty of fundamentalist Muslim nations have standardised curriculum and teach similar. The issue is probably more about what's being taught rather than the model it's being taught under. Just hypothetically, if America standardised education across the nation and removed creation-theory teachings from schools, how would the States, Cities and towns react where there's massive support for Creationism? You'd probably see protests and people outright withdrawing their Children from Schools and denying them an education.

    I really don't think the localised government model can be blamed though. That's just my opinion, and I'm absolutely against creation theory quasi-science.


  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Somebody raised a really good point regarding this Creationism stuff: how can we expect the US to excel in science and be competitive globally when (according to the gallup poll) 40% of the population believes God created the world? If the Bible said the world was flat (does it? I don't know), they'd believe that. No wonder our science education is so far behind much of the rest of the world.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited May 2011
    The poll was pretty scary, I have to say.
    The question do you believe God created humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago ?
    had a response of 40% yes overall
    and 22% postgraduates
    and 37% college students
    believed this as well

    I'll be honest it sounds bad
    :hair:
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    As a comparison this was a poll done in the UK asking similar questions
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm

    Over 2,000 participants took part in the survey, and were asked what best described their view of the origin and development of life:


    22% chose creationism
    17% opted for intelligent design
    48% selected evolution theory
    and the rest did not know.
  • edited May 2011
    I don't know who does the polls, or how they're done, or where, but I find it hard to believe that nearly 40% of college students believe in Creationism. I'd take some of this with a grain of salt.

    OK, so the results for the UK are very similar: if you add the creationism bunch to the intelligent design group, you get a total of 39%, one percentage point short of the US' 40%.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    edited May 2011
    But some would say there is a big difference between believing intelligent design and believing that God created humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago.

    Plus add the American polls, Humans evolved with God guiding + God created humans as is 10,000 years ago and you get 78% who believe in that poll, whereas in the UK's poll it was 39% for intelligent design and creationism.

    :rolleyes:
  • I think Compassionate is right. Could be a gee up. I remember when a large percentage of British people claimed themselves to be Jedi's on the UK census a few years back lmao!
  • edited May 2011
    Plus add the American polls, Humans evolved with God guiding + God created humans as is 10,000 years ago and you get 78% who believe in that poll, whereas in the UK's poll it was 39% for intelligent design and creationism.
    This isn't what you first posted, zid. The way you cited the poll, there was no breakdown for God created humans in current form, and God guided evolution. After actually looking at the poll now, I'd say they're TOTALLY CRAZY! This is no way represents the American public. They must've taken the poll in a specialized environment, like a rabid Bible Belt town or state, or parallel universe. This is insane. If they'd taken the poll in the San Francisco Bay Area or LA, they would have come up with almost opposite results, plus they'd've picked up a number of Buddhists in the process.

  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    Survey Methods

    Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Dec. 10-12, 2010, with a random sample of 1,019 adults, aged 18 and older, living in the continental U.S., selected using random-digit-dial sampling.

    For results based on the total sample of national adults, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points.

    Interviews are conducted with respondents on landline telephones (for respondents with a landline telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell phone-only). Each sample includes a minimum quota of 150 cell phone-only respondents and 850 landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas among landline respondents for gender within region. Landline respondents are chosen at random within each household on the basis of which member had the most recent birthday.

    Samples are weighted by gender, age, race, education, region, and phone lines. Demographic weighting targets are based on the March 2009 Current Population Survey figures for the aged 18 and older non-institutionalized population living in continental U.S. telephone households. All reported margins of sampling error include the computed design effects for weighting and sample design.

    In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.
  • Very interesting, but I still don't buy these results. 78%, nearly 4 in 5 adults, reject Darwinism and opt for God's hand in Creation or evolution? No way.
  • zidanguszidangus Veteran
    The results look pretty flat lined since 1982 in the poll, but as you say I don't really know the full information on how Gallup polls are done in the US. The results do look crazy as you say CW.

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    I remember visiting some Thai schools a few years back, when I would do question/answer sessions with administrators about the American education system. One time I remember that the Thai admins were stunned to hear there was not a national educational program in the US, but rather it was pretty much a state-by-state responsibility. Of course, Thailand does have a national education policy, and it is constantly under attack by the press.

    It is difficult for to say which is the best route.

    It seems logical to have a national policy. But, that constricts the development of different models which may improve education overall. For example -- and since I retired as a school principal in Virginia over 3 years ago, things may have changed -- but for quite a while one of the most respected testing programs in the nation was that of Maryland, where they designed standardized tests that were not as fact-based, but got into things such as concepts and critical thinking. That spurred Virginia to begin modifying some of its testing protocols.

    And, having grown up in a liberal state (NYS), but having settled in a relatively conservative state (Virginia), it does seem as if there should be regional differences in educational programs. Yes, facts are facts, but all that needs to be learned is not mere facts.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    edited May 2011
    I met a young lady a couple of years back who had a Master's in biology. She applied for a job teaching in a high school in our area and was not given the job. Why? Because she had graduated from Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. In case you're unfamiliar, Liberty is the school founded by Jerry Falwell, the ultra-conservative "Christian" minister who is based in Lynchburg. They don't teach anything but creationism. They don't even get a foundation in the basic idea of evolution in their curriculum. Since creationism wasn't the doctrine taught in this system, and evolution science was, she was denied the job because she wasn't qualified (which is absolutely true). How sad a commentary on America is that? We have an entire university (and not just one...) that teaches this fantasy as fact. And people believe it.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    We were in Northern Virginia, but occasionally we got a graduate from Liberty. Of course, I would know that in advance based on the resume. One thing I would look for was if they brought up religion. If they did, I wouldn't consider hiring them because that was a good clue that they were on a "mission". If they avoided that discussion completely, then they might be in the running.

    Although a graduate of Liberty, we once fired a drama teacher who -- despite repeated warnings -- would lecture girls about going to hell because of their apparel.
  • Vinlyn, you should write a book of your experiences as a school teacher and principal. You have so many interesting stories. 9/11, Thailand, I can't remember them all, but you've shared so much good stuff with us (including stories about your former students), it only whets my appetite for more. Have you ever considered this?
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    edited May 2011
    You know, I enjoy writing, and I have often thought that I wished when I started teaching and then progressed through administration that I had kept a few notes. Some funny stuff, some touching, some downright serious. Ah well. But, thank you!
  • It sounds like you have the makings for a good book. I bet if you start recalling incidents, the details will start flooding back into your memory. I've often wondered how people who write autobiographies can recall all the details. Most people don't keep notes about their life. I think the process of writing, and thinking about what you want to write, kicks off the recall process. And maybe a few details are fictionalized, I don't know.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Again, thanks, but the legal confidentiality -- particularly regarding children and personnel decisions -- of so many incidents would be highly problematic.
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