Buddha Nature in the Uttaratantra: what is the point?

NamelessRiver

I hate posting in Advanced Ideas but it seemed inappropriate for beginner's section. :-\

I have been trying to understand the idea of Buddha Nature. As I see it, you can either read the texts on it (like the Uttaratantra) as meaning there is a intrinsically existent Buddha Nature (which seems to be what Other-Emptiness is all about) or you can read it as meaning emptiness in the Madhyamaka (which seems to be what the Self-Emptiness folks do) sense, which basically doesn't add anything new.

So my question is: from a Madhyamaka perspective, why even bother with the study of things like the Thatatagharba Sutra and Uttaratantra? Why do the Gelug folks even teach it (considering Tsongkhapa was against Other-Emptiness)?

xabir

Emptiness is not mere emptiness.

Emptiness and luminosity are inseperable.

aMatt

NR,

I think the question seems reasonable for advanced ideas. Why the hate?

In my opinion... it can help for some minds to approach cultivation from a perspective of buddha-nature, because it can help stop the agitation of seeking and achievement. It switches the perspective from creation and building, such as becoming like something else, to one of renunciation and self abandonment, such as letting go of everything that is not buddha-nature. Or, said differently... instead of building a set of armor to make us resilliant like the buddha, we remove all of our armor, so we are empty like the buddha... removing the need for any resilliance.

In applying buddha-nature to the observation of the phenomena arising in our senses, it can help stop us from needing to puzzle out what is really there. We become luminous, and the awake mind sees the essential nature, as though it is observing a part of itself.

I don't think it generates eternalism or a notion of objective truth, which often cited by its critics. If it is taken as such, I bet the interpreting mind simply hasn't put that clinging to rest yet.

With warmth,

Matt

taiyaki

Here is my interpretation and experience of Buddha nature. From theory to function.


Theory:
Buddha nature is the nature of all things. That nature is simply an existential realization of how reality functions. Buddha nature is infinite potential and infinite expression. Each individual is a unique manifestation of the infinite potential and each moment is a unique expression of the infinite. The function of Buddhism is to realize this underlying truth and embody this truth with full awareness. From that foundation we can see how the underlying reality is the same for everything and everyone. Differences are only expressions of the inherent infinite potential that everything embodies. One must live in between a paradox where there is infinite potential and finite symbolic projection. A person will grow and change because they embody infinite potential. That same person will express this potential in a unique way. We may describe that person with concepts, which is fine for language’s sake, but we must also deeply understand such person also embodies infinite potential. An understanding of this leads to us attaching labels less often, because we realize that person also has the potential for change.



Function:
In teaching we must realize that each student embodies infinite potential and infinite expression. We as teachers organize and mediate an environment where the students can flower their own unique expression of the infinite. This expression is art. The teacher only exists in relation to the student and vice versa. A teacher also embodies infinite potential and thus will grow and change based on the given circumstances. A philosophical framework is useful only in the right circumstance, thus it is better to stay in the realm of infinite potential. One does not need a philosophy to know that fire is hot. Correct function and action occurs when we are free from all viewpoints and when we are completely sincere with the given circumstance. Our opinions and beliefs usually prevent us from acting accordingly, while our hearts know without a doubt what to do. It simply is a balance between our rational mind and our intuitive heart. As a teacher you learn as you experience failure. Failure is our greatest teacher—if we are mindful we can learn from our mistakes, rather than unconsciously enact our mistakes over and over again. A teacher also must come into every situation with a clean slate, thus embodying infinite potential and expression. It is important to not bring the past into the present, unless it serves a specific function. The past asserts a finite viewpoint, which can hinder potential growth, but at the same time it may inspire growth. Everything is what you make it, since you define what reality is by your interpretation.



So essentially everything is buddha nature. It is the most simple thing. It is just potential and expression. EMPTINESS AND FORM.

DhammaDhatu

...there is a intrinsically existent Buddha Nature...

if there was, then you would know it and not be confused about it

there is no intrinsically existent Buddha Nature

but there is an intrinsically existent luminous mind

the luminous mind is something that can be defiled, thus it cannot be Buddha Nature

Buddha Nature is wisdom and something one must work to develop

When Buddha Nature or wisdom is developed, the intrinsically existent luminous mind can be uncovered

To repeat: Buddha Nature cannot be defiled

regards

Sariputta, even if you have to carry me about on a bed, still there will be no change in the lucidity of the Tathagata's wisdom.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.012.ntbb.html

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn't discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind."

"Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is freed from incoming defilements. The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones discerns that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones — there is development of the mind."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an01/an01.049.than.html

Jeffrey

Because there is a manifestation of ungraspable buddha qualities in emptiness rather than just saw dust (quarks oxytocin illusions). The buddha nature is useful at the beginning of the path also. It overcomes despair that you don't have the right self to progress. It also overcomess arrogance and ego in that you are superior to unlettered people.

Dakini

Emptiness and luminosity are inseperable.

Xabir, could you explain luminosity, please, or emptiness and luminosity?

Jeffrey

luminosity is clarity. It is the balance of energy and concentration and. It also means awareness. How things are vivid and distinct. Such as we can recognize something.

NamelessRiver

I think the question seems reasonable for advanced ideas. Why the hate?

Matt

I don't feel like an advanced practitioner, so it feels like I am discussing in the wrong section. :P

I get your point: renunciation instead of "I want THAT!" mentality, right?

Emptiness is not mere emptiness.

Emptiness and luminosity are inseperable.

I am trying to figure that out. I guess my question was why was it important to study Buddha Nature if by studying emptiness you end up in the same point (since they are inseparable?). I am starting to understand the relevance. I don't know much about Buddha Nature (I thought it was a real piece of cake subject, but turns out it isn't) but I feel it is worth the effort to try and understand it.

When Buddha Nature or wisdom is developed, the intrinsically existent luminous mind can be uncovered

So it would be basically like a dusty mirror. With dust on it, it lacks a certain characteristic (the ability to reflect). But by taking off the dust, even though you 'get' a new ability (to reflect), you are actually removing something in excess (ignorance?). Is that it? "Because there is a manifestation of ungraspable buddha qualities in emptiness rather than just saw dust", as Jeffrey put it.

Thanks for the answers guys. :-)