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the coldness of human "frienships"
Vincenzi
Veteran
after many years of trying to prove wrong that it is better to trust no one (by default), there has being two events that really make me conclude (almost all) humans really aren't good friends.
first, I met two people that represent what in my opinion are the best qualities for a great friendship. I don't speak with one due to a weird and silly event. the other has being a great friend.
the other event, was how I remembered my past life to be (in devanamanarati). there was a WORLD of difference to potential for healthy and great friendships.
why is it this way? why humans haven't developed the qualities to be friendly to one another? this should be much more common!
first, I met two people that represent what in my opinion are the best qualities for a great friendship. I don't speak with one due to a weird and silly event. the other has being a great friend.
the other event, was how I remembered my past life to be (in devanamanarati). there was a WORLD of difference to potential for healthy and great friendships.
why is it this way? why humans haven't developed the qualities to be friendly to one another? this should be much more common!
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Comments
with metta
So I believe you want two qualities in friends, you want them to be warm, but also brave. If they aren't a bit tough and brave, they will turn their back on you like nothing when shit hits the fan. They just won't be there for you at all and they won't want to hear your negativity. And if they're tough but don't have a warm heart you may not be able to trust them. They may steal from you eventually, in one way or another.
But now, here comes a third part of making friends. People have different cultures. Whether you like it or not, we all were raised around different cultures. Sure we try and make ourselves into better people and rid ourselves of the negative aspects of the cultures we grew up in, but for the most part, your culture will probably highly affect who you become good friends with.
I can tell you all sorts of stories of the types of people that tend to want to clash with me. My observation is pretty good, so it comes down to a few stereo types of people who usually don't want to get along with me, despite my best efforts.
So you could be a damn good friend like myself, but peoples cultures are a big part of it. Some people just don't want to be friends with a Latin, long haired, tough looking martial artist like myself. And I won't compromise myself to please others, unless they're doing something big for me in return. So it is hard to make real friends for some of us.
I would call a real friend someone who is there when shit hits the fan. Or someone who stands up for you. Remember those friends, if they make an effort to be there when times are tough those are the ones that are worth valuing the most.
This is a good topic, but shouldn't it be in General Banter?
Very similar in Thailand. My friend would "know" somebody...at least that's how it looked to me...but then I'd find out they didn't know each other at all. Just a friendly culture.
And I agree, the number of friends I could count on for real support have been few and far between in my lifetime. Lots of people I am very friendly with, only a very few who are true friends.
I can understand how mind boggling it could be to look at people who have such a lack of concern for others, or otherwise seem to be lacking in qualities that make them a good friend.
Its tragic how few people in this world connect, considering the potential we have to love and be open with one another. The answer to "why" is the same as the "what", in my opinion, and is very much at the root of Buddhism. Why are people cruddy friends? Why don't they have the space to hear us and attend us, as we do for them?
Humans suffer, and it makes them self-centered. Its not like there is some permanent quality in these people that makes them bad, their burden is heavy and they strain underneath it. That strain absorbs their attention, so they don't have it available to give to you.
Consider that when you cultivate stronger conditions of compassion in your own heart, other people's qualities won't lessen your opinion of them. Rather, you'll see how strong they are for carrying such terrible loads, and if anything, be moved to help.
With warmth,
Matt
Don’t let a little dispute injure a great friendship.
Having a great friendship is not a one way street - it requires reciprocity - give and take. When one finds fault with a friend it speaks of dukkha - wanting them to be other than they are. When one's own needs become more important than the relationship - the friendship is injured. But, back to the concept of "great friendship" - they are rare - one is lucky to have one or two in this life. Such friendships are not as fragile as more casual friendships.
That said, it is easy to agree with Vincenzi that humans make lousy friends. My dogs are more reliable than most humans.
Gautama was remembered to have said:
An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind.
that's dishonest, and doesn't make a good base for good friendships.
I guess, finding a few is fortunate... but it shouldn't be this uncommon (it wasn't in my prior life).
@aMatt
the problem is that strain is self-inflicted (by the kilesas).
If the self is impermanent then the kleshas are also impermanent.
"Grasping at things can only yield one of two results:
Either the thing you are grasping at disappears, or you yourself disappear.
It is only a matter of which occurs first."
Goenka
Now I will tell you... sometimes you will attract a personality that demands you help them... without reciprocation. They may depend on you even though they don't give in return. I have attracted many of those types in my life, and I have started to see them for what they are. Once I accept the terms of the friendship... I no longer feel cheated. Instead I see them as someone who is attracted to my personality because they "need" something. I have learned to give them what I can without draining myself (that's the key) because I feel responsible for helping them while I can. When they've resolved their problem, or stop needing my guidance, I let them move on without bitterness because life is impermanent like that, and at least I did something good for someone.
However, if you are attracting people who are cruel or dishonest, then cut them loose. There is no reason to invest in that kind of relationship. Just please don't put a wall. Sometimes someone will surprise you just when you start to lose faith.
it isn't self-inflicted. it is just and observation of humans being (mostly) lousy friends.
I don't know what connotations lousy has; for me it is simply "not good".
If my neighbor comes over asks if I could drive her to the grocery store, that's a reasonable level of friendship for what exists between us. If she comes over and asks me to donate my kidney to her, that's not reasonable based on the level of our friendship. Now I know, that's an extreme example, but the word "friend" doesn't have just one connotation, and the relationships between various people are at different levels.
I think the disparity in our communication comes from something else. "Lousy" and "not good" are pretty much the same in my context also.
I think you use "self-inflicted" as "they do it to themselves, so its their own fault."
I was using "self-inflicted" as "afflictions that arise from clinging to self."
For instance, our desire for people to act differently to us (and others) makes them appear as "lousy friends." The qualities of "friendship" are ideals we project into our environment, then judge people against.
Said differently, perhaps there is something in Vincenzi that causes the seeing that "people are lousy friends" instead of "people are suffering."
With warmth,
Matt
Your friends are not independent of their genetics and environmental conditions. Said differently, they act in a conditioned way that is a product of their environment, so what benefit is there to considering the "lousy" trait something of theirs?
Wouldn't it be easier and more compassionate to only notice it as tragic condition they are afflicted with... but ultimately transient and heal-able?