Judeo-Christian sin

Joshua

What does sin mean to you? How many contexts can you use it in? I've always thought of sin as nearly always bound to the context of a divine transgression, that is until I discovered that the Greek word for sin is usually hamartia which was used by Aristotle as any mishap from murder to misspelling; according to Wikipedia:

a term developed by Aristotle in his work Poetics. The word hamartia is rooted in the notion of missing the mark (hamartanein) and covers a broad spectrum that includes accident and mistake,[1] as well as wrongdoing, error, or sin.[2] In Nicomachean Ethics, hamartia is described by Aristotle as one of the three kinds of injuries that a person can commit against another person. Hamartia is an injury committed in ignorance (when the person affected or the results are not what the agent supposed they were).

I then assumed that the more pejorative context had possibly been carried on by old Jewish converts. I discovered that the gamut of words for sin in Hebrew are: chet, pesha, 'avone, ashma and aveira with the most common one being chet which according to this site means:

In Hebrew, there is no word for sin. The Biblical word "Chet" appears in reference to an arrow which "missed the target." The archer is not "bad." Rather, he made a mistake - due to a lack of focus, concentration or skill.

This concept isn't altogether different from Buddhism, but I feel like the contemporary usage has a lot more superstitious baggage, is this accurate or due to lack of research?

Cloud

"Sin" is used in a lot of ways. One could simply take it in general to mean doing something wrong/bad in the eyes of this or that society/religion.

I don't usually use the word in regards to Buddhism, because people in the USA usually associate "sin" with disobeying God's will, which carries quite a bit more weight than simply screwing up in general.

aMatt

I don't find it all that useful to use. In the west, where I live, sin seems tied to notions of betraying a god or god-like force. In helping people (including ourselves) make healthy decisions, there is really little need to appeal to an external authority. I find most people respond well to "because its better for us and everyone around us to make compassionate choices" rather than "because its a sin"

I agree with the root notion, that true 'sin' is more about acting in a way that does harm than any kind of divine context. However, our social culture has changed it. Much like saying karma in the west might not be pointing at the idea of mental imprint or natural response, so needs to be used with care.

shadowleaver

The word "sin" is loaded with so much cultural baggage that it's about my least favorite word. However, if I set that baggage aside, I believe I can make some sense of it. Take the original sin, the mother of all sins:

Humans (Adam and Eve) were originally in a happy state (Eden), guided by natural wisdom (God). Then they wanted to do things their own way (eat the apple) and as a result were no longer in that blissful state and started to suffer (got kicked out of Eden). So there you go: desire caused suffering. While there was no desire, there was no suffering. Put another way, while they were selfless and in tune with the way things were, things went swell but when they decided that they could cook something better than that natural flow of things, they became selfish and things got miserable. Very Buddhist, I'd say!

Furthermore, the concept that we're all sinful from birth, as negative as it sounds, does not need to be taken the way it's traditionally taken. Perhaps what that means is that when we're born, we suffer from the fundamental delusion that we are separate and that we need to maintain that separation. As long as we have that delusion, things will go sour for us. We'll keep "sinning" (acting unskillfully based on that delusion) and drive ourselves deeper into misery.

To "repent" may be interpreted as admitting to ourselves and possibly others that our view of the world and ourselves is no good and has never been good. Admitting that a long, long time ago we've lost touch with what is true and until that touch is regained, not only we will be unhappy ourselves but we'll keep making others unhappy too.

Simonthepilgrim

You will, of course, notice that Jesus uses, in the only prayer words he taught, that his followers should ask that they be freed from their debts, despite the fact that all translators have used 'trespasses' or 'sins'. By using the word 'debts' and asking us to remit those indebted to us, Jesus is referring back to the text he read in the synagogue: the declaration of a Jubilee, where debts are cancelled and slaves are freed. It is, once again, a call to liberation.

compassionate_warrior

Fascinating! Correctly translating that one word changes the meaning of the entire passage!

Simonthepilgrim

Fascinating! Correctly translating that one word changes the meaning of the entire passage!

Once again it shows how dangerous it is to destroy the teaching of classical languages. I find it extraordinary that Christians appear to be the only believers who have abandoned learning their own sacred languages as against our Muslim or Buddhist sisters and brothers.

vinlyn

Fascinating! Correctly translating that one word changes the meaning of the entire passage!

Once again it shows how dangerous it is to destroy the teaching of classical languages. I find it extraordinary that Christians appear to be the only believers who have abandoned learning their own sacred languages as against our Muslim or Buddhist sisters and brothers.

Somehow I wouldn't give the countries in the modern Middle East much of an edge in humanity. In my view they are a prime example of how societies that don't evolve remain tethered to their past.

I know there's the old saying that, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." Personally I think that it's as accurate, or even more accurate that those who cling to history are doomed to repeat it.

Joshua

I really wish I knew some form of ancient or Koine Greek. *sigh*

compassionate_warrior

Once again it shows how dangerous it is to destroy the teaching of classical languages. I find it extraordinary that Christians appear to be the only believers who have abandoned learning their own sacred languages as against our Muslim or Buddhist sisters and brothers.

But Simon, in order to properly translate the passage you cite, wouldn't the Christians have to learn Hebrew or Aramaic? Or would Greek be sufficient to get it right? And how does it read in Latin?

Simonthepilgrim

@compassionate_warrior,

The Gospels are written in Greek so that Aramaic would be supererogatory. In both Greek and Latin, the Pater uses the words for 'debts' and 'debtors'.

Simonthepilgrim

The question, then, is what Jesus means when he asks us to acknowledge that we are in debt.

vinlyn

I think you're making a big deal about the word. Although I have heard the Lord's Prayer usually with the word "trespasses", I have heard it any number of times with the words "forgive our debts as we forgive our debtors". In my view it simply means when we have done something against another person.

Simonthepilgrim

@vinlyn,

To be in debt is not to have "done something to another person", it clearly means that we owe something. Not the same, I think. After all, our very society, today, is built on debt.

vinlyn

@vinlyn,

To be in debt is not to have "done something to another person", it clearly means that we owe something. Not the same, I think. After all, our very society, today, is built on debt.

You're choosing to use your personal definition as THE definition. There are many discussions about the use of "debts" in the Lord's Prayer on the internet...and I don't mean discussions like we have here, but rather scholarly discussions. For the quickest, yet rather good discussion you might check out Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Prayer and do a word search. You will find, for example, that the words debt and sin were synonyms in Aramic -- the language spoken by Jesus.

compassionate_warrior

You will find, for example, that the words debt and sin were synonyms in Aramic -- the language spoken by Jesus.

This, too, is interesting.
A sin could be a debt, for ex. if you wrong someone in some way, that's a sin, but you owe them a debt, you owe restitution, or an apology, or whatever. That may've been the way things worked in Jesus' time. Justice for some transgressions took the form of making restitution to the aggrieved. (Just my guess, but that's how it used to work in Native American tribes.)

Simonthepilgrim

My intention, when I pointed out that the Lord's Prayer does not use the usual New Testament word for 'sin', was to point out, in the context of a discussion with Buddhists, that there is not a single Judaeo-Christian meaning although we use a single word in English.

First of all, 'sin' has a quite different meaning in Jewish theology. Indeed, as within the Christian communities, there is much debate on what is meant by 'sin'. We must not allow ourselves to be deceived by those with the loudest voices who want to impose their own interpretation on texts and traditions. There is an enormous amount of debate and discussion, as well as much disagreement, on how we are to understand the notion of 'sin'.

NOTaGangsta

Unwholesome Karma in Buddhism is not small matter! You can get some nasty rebirth and retributions. Just because it's not god's punishment, doesn't mean we should slight it. If some Christian homeboy strictly abstain from committing sins he would be better off than a confused lazy Buddhist!