Desire for a women, ordinary love one of the strongest forms of attachment?

StoicBuddhistAlex

I find myself desiring a beutifull inside and out women .Thinking how good it would be to be with her and things of that kind :banghead:.

I remember a girl that i saw and spoke like 1 time when i was in high school 1 year ago. To be honest she was the most beutifull women i have ever saw, i lacked the guts that time to sopke more to her :banghead:. Now i have this feeling of loosing a oportunity and thinking of what ifs or stuff like that.

Now space and time separate us a lot :banghead:


To be honest i feel is a silly form of attachment, but at the same time i feel that i think in her or the idea of her for to much time.

Any buddhist tip in this form of dukkha?

taiyaki

Get yourself into a relationship. Try it a couple of times. You will see a pattern lol.

I see beautiful girls all the time. Sure, I think about being with them. I also think about the dissatisfaction from all the previous girl friends I've had. It's not them. Sure they cure my loneliness, but they never cure my aloneness. Also they never fulfill me, hence I move on to the next girl.

What you are looking for is enlightenment. All desires point to the freedom from desires.

But trial by fire. Find yourself some girls and get out there. Tell me how it works out.

compassionate_warrior

You're clinging to a) the memory of her and b) your fantasies about what she is like. Contemporary culture places so much emphasis on outward appearance. Advertising tends to encourage people to fantasize in this way. Practice meditation, be mindful of your thoughts, and let them go when attachment-related thoughts arise. It sounds like you've established a bit of an obsessive thought pattern, but through mindfulness, you can change that pattern. (But you have to really want to change. It sounds like you're deriving some pleasure from daydreaming about "what ifs" .)

On a more mundane level, get involved in activities where you're meeting new people and making new friends. Is there a Buddhist sangha near you? You might consider joining a Buddhist study group. Consider doing some volunteer work of some kind where you'd be helping those in need. That can be very rewarding. If you enrich your life, you'll have so much more to think about, and you'll be so busy, you won't have time to obsess. The habit will pass in time.

aMatt

I would consider that regret carefully... thinking we have lost an opportunity is our mind looking into the past, and we are not there. All that regret does is solidify our sense of self and distract us from the present workable environment.

The more you breathe and become present, the more esteem you will have when it is time to speak to the next one.

Dazzle

Breathe in the freshness of now, let go of the past and of fantasies about the future with the outbreath.

NOTaGangsta

Read about Avici Hell, will take your mind off women.

seeker242

Yes!


"This have I heard: On one occasion the Blessed One was living near Savatthi, in Jeta's park, staying in Anathapindika's monastery. There indeed the Exalted One called upon the Bhikkhus: 'Bhikkhus!'. 'Venerable Sir!' answered the Bhikkhus. The Blessed One then explained this:

Bhikkhus, I see no other single form, that even so keeps captivating a man's mind as the form of a woman. The male mind, Bhikkhus, remains obsessed with the female form."


"There are attractive and alluring features and aspects of any object...
Frequently giving irrational & unwise attention to them, this is the feeding
cause of the arising of unarisen sense-desire, and also the feeding cause
of the increase and expansion of sense-desire, that already has arisen.
SN 46:51"

StoicBuddhistAlex

Thanks for the tip.

Get yourself into a relationship. Try it a couple of times. You will see a pattern lol.

I see beautiful girls all the time. Sure, I think about being with them. I also think about the dissatisfaction from all the previous girl friends I've had. It's not them. Sure they cure my loneliness, but they never cure my aloneness. Also they never fulfill me, hence I move on to the next girl.

What you are looking for is enlightenment. All desires point to the freedom from desires.

But trial by fire. Find yourself some girls and get out there. Tell me how it works out.

StoicBuddhistAlex

Very accurate description, i had pleasure in day dremaing. Ill go to the buddhist here in my country, hope is not a scam buddhist center but a true one.

You're clinging to a) the memory of her and b) your fantasies about what she is like. Contemporary culture places so much emphasis on outward appearance. Advertising tends to encourage people to fantasize in this way. Practice meditation, be mindful of your thoughts, and let them go when attachment-related thoughts arise. It sounds like you've established a bit of an obsessive thought pattern, but through mindfulness, you can change that pattern. (But you have to really want to change. It sounds like you're deriving some pleasure from daydreaming about "what ifs" .)

On a more mundane level, get involved in activities where you're meeting new people and making new friends. Is there a Buddhist sangha near you? You might consider joining a Buddhist study group. Consider doing some volunteer work of some kind where you'd be helping those in need. That can be very rewarding. If you enrich your life, you'll have so much more to think about, and you'll be so busy, you won't have time to obsess. The habit will pass in time.

StoicBuddhistAlex

Thanks for the reply

I would consider that regret carefully... thinking we have lost an opportunity is our mind looking into the past, and we are not there. All that regret does is solidify our sense of self and distract us from the present workable environment.

The more you breathe and become present, the more esteem you will have when it is time to speak to the next one.

StoicBuddhistAlex

Thanks

Breathe in the freshness of now, let go of the past and of fantasies about the future with the outbreath.

StoicBuddhistAlex

I found a cartoon about it
xD

Read about Avici Hell, will take your mind off women.

StoicBuddhistAlex

Thanks for the passage

Yes!



"This have I heard: On one occasion the Blessed One was living near Savatthi, in Jeta's park, staying in Anathapindika's monastery. There indeed the Exalted One called upon the Bhikkhus: 'Bhikkhus!'. 'Venerable Sir!' answered the Bhikkhus. The Blessed One then explained this:

Bhikkhus, I see no other single form, that even so keeps captivating a man's mind as the form of a woman. The male mind, Bhikkhus, remains obsessed with the female form."


"There are attractive and alluring features and aspects of any object...
Frequently giving irrational & unwise attention to them, this is the feeding
cause of the arising of unarisen sense-desire, and also the feeding cause
of the increase and expansion of sense-desire, that already has arisen.
SN 46:51"

compassionate_warrior

Very accurate description, i had pleasure in day dremaing.

haha! Been there, done that! Ultimately, indulging in such fantasy pleasures is a bit crazy-making. Best to devote your time to reality. When the urge to fantasize arises, consciously stop yourself, and substitute other thoughts, other topics to think about, or activities to do.

Ill go to the buddhist here in my country, hope is not a scam buddhist center but a true one.

Only you can judge whether the teacher has integrity, and the students are mindful and serious students. Good luck.

StoicBuddhistAlex

Very accurate description, i had pleasure in day dremaing.

haha! Been there, done that! Ultimately, indulging in such fantasy pleasures is a bit crazy-making. Best to devote your time to reality. When the urge to fantasize arises, consciously stop yourself, and substitute other thoughts, other topics to think about, or activities to do.

StoicBuddhistAlex said:

Ill go to the buddhist here in my country, hope is not a scam buddhist center but a true one.

Only you can judge whether the teacher has integrity, and the students are mindful and serious students. Good luck.

Hehehe women really make us crazy good luck that at the age of 50 or something desire for sex diminishes.


Hope some mathemathics, thinking in Desirelessness and the impermanence of the body helps.

Also a Hindu mystic
called OSHO says that you have to be happy alone and then give love withouth expecting, so maybe he read some buddhism.

federica

I personally have never had a desire for a woman, so fortunately, I don't have this problem....

....
Bhikkhus, I see no other single form, that even so keeps captivating a man's mind as the form of a woman. The male mind, Bhikkhus, remains obsessed with the female form."


"There are attractive and alluring features and aspects of any object...
Frequently giving irrational & unwise attention to them, this is the feeding
cause of the arising of unarisen sense-desire, and also the feeding cause
of the increase and expansion of sense-desire, that already has arisen.
SN 46:51"

I find it very telling that at no point in this passage, does the Buddha imply that it is the responsibility or fault of the woman, that the male mind is so captivated by the form of a woman.

"The male mind remains obsessed" (male responsibility)
"Giving irrational & unwise attention".... they do not request or demand attention, but they attract it anyway.... (male responsibility)

So this sheds light, (in my view anyway) on the Buddha's concern about the Dhamma being cut short in less time, if women were ordained....
The distraction of women, to the male mind, would cause the male mind to be distracted, to wander and to divert from its course....

If there is an attraction to a woman, it's "you" who is being attracted.
If 'you' permit yourself to lose your focus, and to not see the relationship for everything it is - then the person causing your suffering, is you.

This goes for everything you are attracted to, distracted bym, draawn to and tempted to focus on.
if it takes you away and becomes more pressing and vital, than the Dhamma - then it is you who is not Right in your View, or Intention, Effort, concentration or Awareness.

federica

Hehehe women really make us crazy

No, they do not. You make you crazy (see my post, above). Women do nothing, your Mind does it all....

good luck that at the age of 50 or something desire for sex diminishes.

well I don't know where you got this little piece of inaccurate information from, but trust me - I am 54, and still going strong.... thanks a lot!

aMatt

No, they do not. You make you crazy (see my post, above). Women do nothing, your Mind does it all....

Women do nothing? Perfume, makeup, push up bras, high heels, short shorts, curling irons etc etc etc... intent on exploiting every weakness of a man's mind!

Plus, I'm not sure its the man's Mind that gets hooked...

Dakini

good luck that at the age of 50 or something desire for sex diminishes.

well I don't know where you got this little piece of inaccurate information from, but trust me - I am 54, and still going strong.... thanks a lot!

Who said that, Alex? Alex, I have news for you. After 50 many women are even more raring to go than before. It's men who lose their steam. But it's nothing a little testosterone supplementation can't fix.

Women do nothing? Perfume, makeup, push up bras, high heels, short shorts, curling irons etc etc etc... intent on exploiting every weakness of a man's mind!

I see! So, Matt, you don't notice the millions of women who don't use all those props? Thanks for letting us know where you're at.

aMatt

I see! So, Matt, you don't notice the millions of women who don't use all those props? Thanks for letting us know where you're at.

I'm not sure I have the time to notice millions of women, but wouldn't you say its fair to notice that more do use props than don't? At least in the west, where I live, I would say it is 100 do for every one that doesn't.

Also, I was just teasing. I do understand we are ultimately responsible for what happens in our mind. I was putting her snark into a social context, rather than one of mental fabrications.

Dakini

@aMatt OK, tease well taken. But no, I don't know where in the West you live, but in the US, most women aren't into all that, at least on the coasts, and much of the SW. It passed out of fashion beginning in the 1960's, but is more mainstream now. For office wear, depending on the job, some women still wear high heels. Some jobs require makeup as part of the dress code for women. I've had guests from Eastern Europe who look around and ask, "Why don't the women in America dress like women?" (meaning: why don't they use the props). Where do you live? (And thanks, Alex, for the topic, and for tolerating this somewhat silly and only vaguely relevant digression. )

aMatt

I live in the midwest. I don't mean to say every women uses every prop, but if you show me a women without say, any makeup on, 9 times out of 10 she hasn't showered either and is on a quick errand. I almost never see women without props. I am not intending on encouraging the practice, simply noting.

As a side note/joke.. when my girlfriend puts on makeup in front of me (usually some foundation and eye liner) I say "thank goodness, your pasty skin and small looking eyes were repulsive, we almost broke up just now."

Dakini

Well, I don't mean to be a jerk, but I was going to guess you're in the MidWest. It's more traditional there. In the South, probably, too. I think make-up is a lot about marketing and selling "stuff".

haha--great joke! ^_^

santhisouk

It is a strong attachment, but an even stronger attachment is the attachment to our "self".

metta

StoicBuddhistAlex

Hehehe women really make us crazy

No, they do not. You make you crazy (see my post, above). Women do nothing, your Mind does it all....

good luck that at the age of 50 or something desire for sex diminishes.

well I don't know where you got this little piece of inaccurate information from, but trust me - I am 54, and still going strong.... thanks a lot!

Guess i was joking xD. About the age thingy guess when you get old is kind more easy to controll yourself.

StoicBuddhistAlex

good luck that at the age of 50 or something desire for sex diminishes.

well I don't know where you got this little piece of inaccurate information from, but trust me - I am 54, and still going strong.... thanks a lot!

Who said that, Alex? Alex, I have news for you. After 50 many women are even more raring to go than before. It's men who lose their steam. But it's nothing a little testosterone supplementation can't fix.

Women do nothing? Perfume, makeup, push up bras, high heels, short shorts, curling irons etc etc etc... intent on exploiting every weakness of a man's mind!

I see! So, Matt, you don't notice the millions of women who don't use all those props? Thanks for letting us know where you're at.

about MILFS... xD. Well being old kinda free you from sexual apetite.

StoicBuddhistAlex

@aMatt OK, tease well taken. But no, I don't know where in the West you live, but in the US, most women aren't into all that, at least on the coasts, and much of the SW. It passed out of fashion beginning in the 1960's, but is more mainstream now. For office wear, depending on the job, some women still wear high heels. Some jobs require makeup as part of the dress code for women. I've had guests from Eastern Europe who look around and ask, "Why don't the women in America dress like women?" (meaning: why don't they use the props). Where do you live? (And thanks, Alex, for the topic, and for tolerating this somewhat silly and only vaguely relevant digression. )

Freedom for the win :rockon:

StoicBuddhistAlex

It is a strong attachment, but an even stronger attachment is the attachment to our "self".

metta

Explain moar please .

seeker242

I personally have never had a desire for a woman, so fortunately, I don't have this problem....

....
Bhikkhus, I see no other single form, that even so keeps captivating a man's mind as the form of a woman. The male mind, Bhikkhus, remains obsessed with the female form."


"There are attractive and alluring features and aspects of any object...
Frequently giving irrational & unwise attention to them, this is the feeding
cause of the arising of unarisen sense-desire, and also the feeding cause
of the increase and expansion of sense-desire, that already has arisen.
SN 46:51"

I find it very telling that at no point in this passage, does the Buddha imply that it is the responsibility or fault of the woman, that the male mind is so captivated by the form of a woman.

"The male mind remains obsessed" (male responsibility)
"Giving irrational & unwise attention".... they do not request or demand attention, but they attract it anyway.... (male responsibility)

So this sheds light, (in my view anyway) on the Buddha's concern about the Dhamma being cut short in less time, if women were ordained....
The distraction of women, to the male mind, would cause the male mind to be distracted, to wander and to divert from its course....

If there is an attraction to a woman, it's "you" who is being attracted.
If 'you' permit yourself to lose your focus, and to not see the relationship for everything it is - then the person causing your suffering, is you.

This goes for everything you are attracted to, distracted bym, draawn to and tempted to focus on.
if it takes you away and becomes more pressing and vital, than the Dhamma - then it is you who is not Right in your View, or Intention, Effort, concentration or Awareness.

Yes yes and yes! However, he had this for you too.

"Bhikkhus, I see no other single form, that even so keeps captivating a woman's mind as the form of a man. The female mind, Bhikkhus, remains obsessed with the male form."

http://what-buddha-said.net/Canon/Sutta/AN/AN.I.1-2.htm

seeker242

But there is cure for lusty obsessions:

The 32 inner organs of the body; A skin sac of bones with 9 oozing holes:
Herein, Bhikkhus, a Bhikkhu reflects on just this body, confined within the
skin and full of manifold ugly impurities from the soles upward and from the
top of the hair downwards in this way: "There is in this body: head and body
hair, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, marrow, kidneys, heart, liver,
pleura, spleen, lungs, intestines, bowels, stomach, excrement, bile, pus,
blood, sweat, fat, tears, lymph, spit, slime, snot, joint-fluid, urine and
the brain in the skull."

AKA Even pretty girls, with nice big boobs, have nasty, stinking diarrhea shit, piss, blood and snot coming out of them. Ewww! Get away! That's disgusting!

StoicBuddhistAlex

But there is cure for lusty obsessions:

The 32 inner organs of the body; A skin sac of bones with 9 oozing holes:
Herein, Bhikkhus, a Bhikkhu reflects on just this body, confined within the
skin and full of manifold ugly impurities from the soles upward and from the
top of the hair downwards in this way: "There is in this body: head and body
hair, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, marrow, kidneys, heart, liver,
pleura, spleen, lungs, intestines, bowels, stomach, excrement, bile, pus,
blood, sweat, fat, tears, lymph, spit, slime, snot, joint-fluid, urine and
the brain in the skull."

AKA Even pretty girls, with nice big boobs, have nasty, stinking diarrhea shit, piss, blood and snot coming out of them. Ewww! Get away! That's disgusting!

Wait! What hepnes if that turns me more :rarr:

joke. Also all bodies get old and putrefact.

santhisouk

Explain moar please .

Attachment to our "self" is hard to overcome, it would a tremendous amount of practice, and constant detachment of sensual pleasures here and there, that is what renunciation is for.

metta

aMatt

AKA Even pretty girls, with nice big boobs, have nasty, stinking diarrhea shit, piss, blood and snot coming out of them. Ewww! Get away! That's disgusting!

Shrug, I've helped deliver three children and don't find those notions repulsive. Actually, I think I find those notions being repulsive as being repulsive.

Women poop? Oh no, run!!?? Really?

I think the teaching is about seeing them in total... so they are simply seen as who they are completely, rather than pursued lustily because of a well shaped this or that. I don't think its about them being "icky", but I could be wrong.

MindGate

In regards to relationships, accesstoinsight says:

In view of what has been said about "birth and suffering," some people have criticized Buddhism saying that is against married life. They are wrong. The Buddha never spoke against married life. However, he pointed out all the problems, difficulties and worries that people would have to face when they take on the responsibility of marriage. Just because he warned one against problems in marriage does not mean that the Buddha condemned marriage.

Dakini

Quite right, MG. In fact, the Buddha gave teachings specifically for householders and married people.

seeker242

I think the teaching is about seeing them in total... so they are simply seen as who they are completely, rather than pursued lustily because of a well shaped this or that. I don't think its about them being "icky", but I could be wrong.

I found this article a good read on the subject. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/khantipalo/wheel271.html

"Such desires for pleasures in which the body is the instrument (though it is in the heart-mind where they dwell), awaken and intensify greed of all kinds, for food or sex for instance. Greed which is often accompanied by pleasurable sensations — and therefore desired — needs a rather bitter medicine to combat it: hence the number of pieces here on the unattractiveness of the body, its decay and death — all unpleasant matters. Some of the material, concerned with bodily unattractiveness, is like a medicine which need only be taken while the disease of greed-lust is active, and afterwards may be discontinued. It is important to understand this, and not to form the mistaken impression that the Buddha advocated viewing all beauty as loathsome. It is only that there is a hook in beauty which tangles with the greed in one's own heart and leads to more and more complications and difficulties."

Which essentially means to me that when the mind is consumed with lust, attention to the unpleasant things helps to quell that. Because normally when the mind is consumed with lust, it's not seeing the total, it's just seeing the pleasant and attractive things and ignoring the rest. So bringing attention to "poop" or whatever brings the total back into the picture. That is how I interpret it anyway.

Theswingisyellow

"Bhikkhus, I see no other single form, that even so keeps captivating a man's mind as the form of a woman. The male mind, Bhikkhus, remains obsessed with the female form."
Boy he had that right!!:p

pegembara

See, the Buddha telling it like it is. No mincing of words.

http://www.buddhagautama.com/apps/blog/show/5869001-rupadi-vagga-form-and-others-an-1-1-an1-10-things-that-most-captivate-the-five-senses

NOTaGangsta

I found a cartoon about it
xD

Read about Avici Hell, will take your mind off women.

It's no laughing matter...

Anyway, Buddhism is not against wholesome love, marriage and stable relationships. Lots of us are not cultivated enough to let go of this attachment yet.