Aversion-Pleasurable Duality and how to meditate?. Some light please.

StoicBuddhistAlex

-Can some one explain more about this pleasure-aversion duality please?
-How you meditate in buddhism? Or what exactly it is?

Cloud

You like things that are pleasurable to you, you dislike things that are not pleasurable to you. What's the question?

What type of meditation are we talking here? A great website for all Buddhist traditions is http://www.buddhanet.net for info.

taiyaki

this pertains to the second question.

have you ever mastered a craft? well from my experience as an illustrator i learned a lot of technical skills in drawing/painting. my hand is basically a robot and it moves when i want it to move it. the problem with this is that my drawings end up looking very mechanical and tight. that is not to say that is a problem because at times that tightness is needed in an illustration. After a while I learned how to loosen up and allow my brush strokes and pencil marks to happen more fluidly while keeping the technical/tightness in mind. By learning how to relax and move with what felt right I learned how to create much looser but in a way tighter illustrations.

So meditation is the same. You have to be focused and present so you aren't dull and sleepy. But at the same time you have to be relaxed and calm. It is a bit of push and pull until you come to a happy medium. Just sit and watch things occur. A lot of things occur in meditation. Bliss states, arising of repressed memories/emotions, monkey mind, calm mind, etc. They are all mental projections, nothing more. That which arises will always fall. That is the point of meditation to see through all these projections: mental, emotional, gut reactions, etc. We do this by focusing and relaxing and watching without judgment.

StoicBuddhistAlex

You like things that are pleasurable to you, you dislike things that are not pleasurable to you. What's the question?

What type of meditation are we talking here? A great website for all Buddhist traditions is http://www.buddhanet.net for info.

I think i readed something about that buddhism tracends that duality of pleasure and aversion and see them as indifferent or worldy.

Cloud

The awakened mind rises above pleasure/pain duality and sees both as temporary, ownerless experiences that cause suffering (dukkha) to grasp. Such a mind is peaceful whether there are pleasurable experiences or un-pleasurable experiences, and so neither craves for pleasure nor shies away from pain.

taiyaki

if the buddha transcends duality of pleasure/aversion is to not even see them as anything. though is may appear the buddha is indifferent towards the world and that may be true. but at the same time the buddha engages in the world like a normal person.

non duality can present itself as static but the dynamic is just as valid since there is no distinction. thus pleasure and aversion still happens to a buddha, but the buddha doesn't cling. just sees it for what it is. impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self. thus the buddha can enjoy a slice of pizza and smile away. lol.

DhammaDhatu

-Can some one explain more about this pleasure-aversion duality please?
-How you meditate in buddhism? Or what exactly it is?

Sure

The duality is love-hate. It is not pleasure-pain. A human mind cannot be free from pleasure-pain. It can only be free from love-hate.

Pleasure-pain are feelings, related to the sense organs & nervous system. Whereas love-hate are forms of craving & thought related to views, opinions and intentions.

Feeling cannot be controlled whereas desires & thoughts can be.

Example, if you suck a lemon or bite into rotten fruit, it will always be unpleasurable or disagreeable to your taste. Or if your body is cold and you walk in the warm sun, this experience will always be pleasure.

So the meditation on the love-hate dualty is to watch the mind so love-hate, like-dislike to not arise.

For example, when eating tasty food. Focus on the eating, on the chewing, on the taste of the food and watch the mind so the very watching stops thoughts of: "I love this food", "this good is delicious", " I hope I get the same food tomorrow", etc.

Or when your mind sees something unpleasurable, such as people throwing rubbish on the road or in the park. Your mind just looks at the people throwing rubbish & polluting. If the feeling of discomfort or displeasure is within your mind, just observe the feeling; just observe the rubish, so thoughts of: "How dare they pollute"; "those people are evil", "i hate those people", etc, do not occur.

OK. Good luck

MamaLotus

Thank you for the initial questions and also for the answers: it really helped me. I hope it also helped you, StoicBuddhistAlex!
Thanks!

Jeffrey

The aversion craving duality is that you wish to be happy and you look in the wrong places. Rather than working on your own mind you try to control the conditions by having things your way. This comes from the basic view that YOU are having AN EXPERIENCE and you want it to be different. The truth is that there is no difference between you and your experience and there is no property of having. And thus satisfaction is looked for in the nature of mind rather than in gain and loss which are cyclic and uncontrollable.

Jeffrey

I also enjoyed the answers in particular the insight into painting as an act of meditation and awareness qualities.

StoicBuddhistAlex

The awakened mind rises above pleasure/pain duality and sees both as temporary, ownerless experiences that cause suffering (dukkha) to grasp. Such a mind is peaceful whether there are pleasurable experiences or un-pleasurable experiences, and so neither craves for pleasure nor shies away from pain.

Thanks for answer .

StoicBuddhistAlex

if the buddha transcends duality of pleasure/aversion is to not even see them as anything. though is may appear the buddha is indifferent towards the world and that may be true. but at the same time the buddha engages in the world like a normal person.

non duality can present itself as static but the dynamic is just as valid since there is no distinction. thus pleasure and aversion still happens to a buddha, but the buddha doesn't cling. just sees it for what it is. impermanent, unsatisfactory, and non-self. thus the buddha can enjoy a slice of pizza and smile away. lol.

buddha eating pizza
:rockon:

StoicBuddhistAlex

-Can some one explain more about this pleasure-aversion duality please?
-How you meditate in buddhism? Or what exactly it is?

Sure

The duality is love-hate. It is not pleasure-pain. A human mind cannot be free from pleasure-pain. It can only be free from love-hate.

Pleasure-pain are feelings, related to the sense organs & nervous system. Whereas love-hate are forms of craving & thought related to views, opinions and intentions.

Feeling cannot be controlled whereas desires & thoughts can be.

Example, if you suck a lemon or bite into rotten fruit, it will always be unpleasurable or disagreeable to your taste. Or if your body is cold and you walk in the warm sun, this experience will always be pleasure.

So the meditation on the love-hate dualty is to watch the mind so love-hate, like-dislike to not arise.

For example, when eating tasty food. Focus on the eating, on the chewing, on the taste of the food and watch the mind so the very watching stops thoughts of: "I love this food", "this good is delicious", " I hope I get the same food tomorrow", etc.

Or when your mind sees something unpleasurable, such as people throwing rubbish on the road or in the park. Your mind just looks at the people throwing rubbish & polluting. If the feeling of discomfort or displeasure is within your mind, just observe the feeling; just observe the rubish, so thoughts of: "How dare they pollute"; "those people are evil", "i hate those people", etc, do not occur.

OK. Good luck

Very complete answer, many thanks. When you talk about an uncontrollable universe and that the only thing we can fully control is our mind reminds me a lot of stoicism.

StoicBuddhistAlex

Thank you for the initial questions and also for the answers: it really helped me. I hope it also helped you, StoicBuddhistAlex!
Thanks!

Glad it helped xD.

This people of this forum are very great, wise and active

StoicBuddhistAlex

The aversion craving duality is that you wish to be happy and you look in the wrong places. Rather than working on your own mind you try to control the conditions by having things your way. This comes from the basic view that YOU are having AN EXPERIENCE and you want it to be different. The truth is that there is no difference between you and your experience and there is no property of having. And thus satisfaction is looked for in the nature of mind rather than in gain and loss which are cyclic and uncontrollable.

So we focus on our mind and watch like a third eye?

StoicBuddhistAlex

So lets say i get insulted and humiliated by many people.

My 1st reaction is to see that as something bad, they are lowering my social status etc.

But as a stoic/buddhist fame/social status are hollow. That takes a lot of steem from the insults.

So you watch your toughts and stop thiking further or analyze it to take out steem?

More insight in this kind of situation.

Jeffrey

"So we focus on our mind and watch like a third eye?"

I don't know maybe. But not in a heavy handed critical way. Just in a light hearted way let go and watch without any thought just int he seeing.

DhammaDhatu

So lets say i get insulted and humiliated by many people.

So you watch your thoughts and stop thinking further or analyze it to take out steam?

Yes

SpinyNorman2

So you watch your toughts and stop thiking further or analyze it to take out steem?

Just accepting the way you are at any moment is a good start. No need to judge or overanalyse.

Spiny