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Philosophical debate

edited January 2006 in NewBuddhist.com
Is there a designated debate area?

Comments

  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    No. Every thread and post is open to debate and discussion, and all that we ask is that people do so with all the consideration they would wish for themselves... Otherwise there is no definitive, fixed debate area....


    Why, do you want to pick a fight? :lol::lol:

    I'm kidding!!

    Hello and welcome to our forum!
    Please feel free to open any topic you may wish to discuss, or join in any discussion already there!
  • edited January 2006
    Why, do you want to pick a fight?

    Wrestle. :)
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited January 2006
    MMM MMM!

    Me like to see Fede and Kowtaaia wrassle!

    -bf
  • edited January 2006
    OH!! I'm always up for a good debate! Let's start one!
  • edited January 2006
    buddhafoot,

    Sounds good. :)
  • edited January 2006
    YogaMama,

    Why don't you pick a subject?
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Let's have a nice philosophical debate!
    Can't wait.


    ONLY bf can call you, "YodaMama," I presume, YogaMama?
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited January 2006
    This may be a form of attachment, but I believe only I can call her YodaMama.

    She is the ying to my yang (that sounded kind of odd - but wasn't meant too)
    The salt to my pepper (that one sounded odd too - I might have to delete this thread)
    The pruner of my humor.
    The hali of my tosis.
    The deviled of my eggs.
    The beather of my cloud.

    It's kind of weird, huh?

    -bf
  • edited January 2006
    YogaMama,

    The crowd is getting restless for a philosophical wrestle.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Buddhafoot:
    I kinda thought you were the only one to use that special term of endearment for YogaMama.

    Very Respectfully,

    Nirvana

    P.S. We Love You, Too.
    :bigclap:
  • edited January 2006
    So just what is Nirvana all about anyway? I know that is considered an aim, but what does it look like? What is being aimed for?
  • XraymanXrayman Veteran
    edited January 2006
    This is not the forum for a mas-debate....I think you are all a little confused.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited January 2006
    PARADISE (but not a place), beebuddy! Moksha. Mukti, a mind which no longer is "coming and going." A transcendence of phenomenal being, transcending the sense of "ego," it is an absolute truth (about the true nature of things) to be realized. Such realization brings moksha, liberation.

    Lord Buddha discouraged speculation about what happens to an enlightened person after death. He said that such lines of thinking were not useful for pursuing enlightenment; thus definitions of nirvana are of no intrinsic importance. Therefore, why have a philosophical debate on this?


    P.S. THIS IS A SITE DISCUSSION PAGE. WHAT RULES, XRAYMAN???
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    ....(He didn't get it.)
  • edited January 2006
    P.S. THIS IS A SITE DISCUSSION PAGE. WHAT RULES, XRAYMAN???

    He was being "rude" !:nonono: :grin:
  • edited January 2006
    ""Lord Buddha discouraged speculation about what happens to an enlightened person after death. He said that such lines of thinking were not useful for pursuing enlightenment; thus definitions of nirvana are of no intrinsic importance. Therefore, why have a philosophical debate on this?""

    So, in your opinion Nirvana is something that happens after death, huh?
  • edited January 2006
    Death of the known.
  • edited January 2006
    hmmm...a good debate...well, I am always up for a debate on parenting subjects, but I don't think most of you are parents yet. I'll come up with somehting good today!
  • edited January 2006
    buddhafoot wrote:
    This may be a form of attachment, but I believe only I can call her YodaMama.

    She is the ying to my yang (that sounded kind of odd - but wasn't meant too)
    The salt to my pepper (that one sounded odd too - I might have to delete this thread)
    The pruner of my humor.
    The hali of my tosis.
    The deviled of my eggs.
    The beather of my cloud.

    It's kind of weird, huh?

    -bf

    I think you should have deleted this post a long time ago!!!
  • edited January 2006
    I'll come up with somehting good today!

    Since it's taken so long, so far, that's debatable, YoDaMama! :)
  • edited January 2006
    LOL! I do apologize...I had no idea that everyone was waiting on me!

    Oh, and you are going to be in T-R-O-U-B-L-E!!!! bf - he called me Yodamama!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    Yes, I think you might call it a 'virtual' poke in the chest with a pointy finger....!!
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Me!?!?!?!

    I told him that was "my" endearment, not his.

    Am I my brothers keeper?

    -bf
  • edited January 2006
    OK - how about if we start with this debate:

    Has everyone heard or read about this story yet:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060120/ap_on_go_ot/us_al_qaida_tape;_ylt=AufAaluXyCxFHACQc8c.Z4Os0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-

    Is Dick Cheney's comment "The only way to deal with terrorists is to destroy them" the right approach? Does everyone agree with that? Would it simply be better to just apologize, get out of Iraq, and focus on protecting our own country, or is it more important to protect every other country that can't fight for themselves? We saw what happened with the people in New Orleans...it seems the US finds that it is more important to go to war, than to help its own citizens.
  • edited January 2006
    Well I'd say that Cheney's philosophy is little low-brow. :D Everyone knows that the best way to deal with terrorists is poke them in the eye and run.
  • edited January 2006
    O.K. YoDaMama...You're fired!
  • edited January 2006
    buddhafoot,

    That's the last time.
  • edited January 2006
    Now, if there was a political board or section, it would be a different story. It could just be ignored.:cheer:
  • edited January 2006
    Why am I fired?? I don't see you coming up with any ideas, smarty.

    You're ugly and your mom dresses you funny.
  • edited January 2006
    :canflag: oh shart kow she thinks your a terrorist!
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    ....language, Timothy.....
  • edited January 2006
    YogaMama,

    There's no way that you could know that! You're just a good guesser.
  • edited January 2006
    I am "all knowing".
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited January 2006
    There has been testing done in the US where volunteer travellers are getting fingerprinted and having background checks run on them by the government - or a government agency - that will basically "OK" them to pass through security at an airport.

    This means: no standing in lines, no removing your shoes/pants/undies to go through a line, easy travel while navigating airports, etc.

    Now, is this a good thing? Allowing citizens to be checked in this much detail for something as simple as travel within our own country? I can bet you that Senators don't have to go through this.
    And, what about the people that elect to do this - will less care be given to the lines of people that DON'T volunteer to do this? Will there become classes of "travellers" within our nation? And if it's gets to the point of thinking, "Hmmm... do I want to stand in lines for hours or should I just go ahead and do this because I keep missing flights or am late for connections and such" - does it really become voluntary anymore? Or does this turn into a passive-aggressive stance on forcing citizens to do what the government wants?

    -bf
  • edited January 2006
    When I went to New York in October we were all finger printed when we went through customs. We weren't given a choice though and we just assumed it was an extra security check. Not a bad idea, and it didn't delay things one bit.
    My mate had some issues though. He'd been to Vegas for a week 2 years before and for some reason they had no notice of him leaving the country. He was on the system as being a fugitive for the last 2 years !! Oh how we laughed !
  • edited January 2006
    YogaMama wrote:
    I am "all knowing".

    There, there now.:-/
  • buddhafootbuddhafoot Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Frizzer wrote:
    When I went to New York in October we were all finger printed when we went through customs. We weren't given a choice though and we just assumed it was an extra security check. Not a bad idea, and it didn't delay things one bit.
    My mate had some issues though. He'd been to Vegas for a week 2 years before and for some reason they had no notice of him leaving the country. He was on the system as being a fugitive for the last 2 years !! Oh how we laughed !

    I'm glad it was a good laugh.

    I'm also glad that it didn't turn out to be 4 hours of body cavity searches, 4 hours of interrogation and an overnight stay in a cell.

    -bf
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    It's a bit like the controversy of trying to issue ID cards in the UK... there is much talk of the cost involved, who should foot the bill, infringement of personal and Individual Civil Rights....

    France and Italy have had them a long time... And the plain fact of the matter is, it's a bit like vehicle documents.. If you get caught without them, you got ten days to produce tham at your local police station....
    I personally believe that you only need to fear this procedure if you got something to hide...
    That said, any system is open to abuse, both by the Civilian and the administrator....
    I'd want to see all the guidelines regulations and administration procedures first.....
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    beebuddy wrote:
    :canflag: oh shart kow she thinks your a terrorist!


    :lol: :thumbsup:
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited January 2006
    beebuddy wrote:
    So, in your opinion Nirvana is something that happens after death, huh?
    kowtaaia wrote:
    Death of the known. This holy life is lived for the abandoning of becoming.
    I'd say that Buddha achieved Nirvana at about age 35. Does that make me Right-Brained?


    Just a stupid question, this?
  • edited January 2006
    """"Lord Buddha discouraged speculation about what happens to an enlightened person after death. He said that such lines of thinking were not useful for pursuing enlightenment; thus definitions of nirvana are of no intrinsic importance."""

    LOL, ok well if Sid "achieved Nirvana at 35" then the "thus" would have to be considered non-sequitur. I think Mr. Taaia just defined nirvana or at least pointed to what it means.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Well, maybe that was a no-brainer for him.
    As for this suchness and tathagata stuff, sounds kinda Buddhist to me.
    What would you think of someone like me who's COMPLETELY LOST?

    Be kind to your Mac
    Vent your frustration on IBM

  • edited January 2006
    What's wrong with being lost?
  • edited January 2006
    buddhafoot wrote:
    I'm glad it was a good laugh.

    I'm also glad that it didn't turn out to be 4 hours of body cavity searches, 4 hours of interrogation and an overnight stay in a cell.

    -bf

    I was being ironic! :winkc:
    It was a right pain in the arse (not literally :eekblue: ) as he ended up being questioned for about an hour while the rest of us had to loiter around the baggage reclaim.
    As you pointed out though, it could have been far worse......:eek:
  • edited January 2006
    ""What would you think of someone like me who's COMPLETELY LOST?""

    Trying not to think about that honestly. :scratch:
  • edited January 2006
    We can talk about "us" later. Anyway, what I don't get is what speculating about what happens to an enlightened person after death has to do with talking about nirvana. But if is your opinion that nirvana shouldn't be debated about then I respect that.
  • NirvanaNirvana aka BUBBA   `     `   South Carolina, USA Veteran
    edited January 2006
    Beebuddy, PLEASE don't take me too seriously. The fact that I wouldn't know how to begin to explain Nirvana (since I have not experienced it) is the main reason I'd not care to debate it. Generally, I think experience should be the first light. After that, words and labels tend to darken and obscure the illumination, not trump it... And debate can result in a total failure at real communication. I think that's an observation, more than a mere opinion. HOWEVER:

    My greatest wish in life is to be liberated
    from all my opinions.


    I think debate should be over things we've been touched by, or have seen, felt, or held in our hands. Forgive me my opinion, here. I don't like to argue with someone who, as Solomon says, has never done me any wrong.

    Kind and Warm Wishes,

    Nirvana



  • edited January 2006
    Interesting. Well I would tend to agree (that 99% of the time) debate is the opposite of communcation. :) Even so, it has meaning.

    Edit: font for the termitenator. This'll take some getting used to.
  • edited January 2006
    Dharma Data: Debate


    Debating, the formal arguing or discussion of a thesis before an audience, has a long and distinguished history in Buddhism beginning with the Buddha himself. In text like the Sutta Nipata of the Pali Tipitaka, the Buddha says that the true monk argues with no one and keeps away from public debates. But in many other works in the Tipitaka he is portrayed as a vigorous and successful debater. It would seem therefore that at the beginning of his career the Buddha simply taught those who were interested in what he had to say, but later as his teachings came to be criticised or misinterpreted, he felt the need to explain, clarify and defend them. And this he did with remarkable virtuosity. So successful was he that he was accused of using magic to convert his opponents. In later centuries, Buddhist scholars success in debating played an important part in the winning of intellectuals to Buddhism. Sometimes the stakes were high. During certain periods those defeated in debate had to either become the victor's disciple or commit suicide. Different Buddhist schools also debated with each other. The Chinese Mahayana monk Hsuan Tsang debated with the Savakayana monk Pragnadea in front of a huge audience and won. However it is specifically mentioned that after it was all over the two men remained good friends.

    The great Samye debate in Tibet in 792-4AD between the Chinese monk Hva-san and the Indian monk Kamalasida, which the latter finally won, meant that Tibet was to rely more on India than China for its Buddhism. Perhaps the most crucial modern debate took place in Panadura in Sri Lanka in 1873. Venerable M.Gunaranda took on the Reverend David de Silva in a two day debate and to everyone's astonishment, thoroughly defeated his opponent. The victory marked the halt in Buddhism's decline in the face of Christian evangelism and the beginning of a major revival.

    J.N. Jayatilleke, The Early Buddhist Theory of Knowledge, London, 1963.


  • edited January 2006
    Well, debate is on dehook, anyway. :)
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