Curious About Previous Experience

Yishai

All throughout my life as far as I can remember back I would often encounter states where I'd be lying perfectly still(not out of tiredness, just to relax), my senses would fade away and I'd lose the attachment to my body. I could not tell where my eyes existed, where my limbs started or stopped, what I was lying upon. Without the sensory "firing", I would be what I can only call 'floating', except it wasn't floating, maybe what is meant by 'awareness'? Anyway, it would be the best feeling in the world, but I would always be curious why everything stopped. I would settle down and reach out and move my body so as to create some movement, and I would lose the floaty 'awareness'. Being a kid/teenager, I would then try to do it again, to no avail.

So I am wondering, is that what Awareness is like? As a kid, was I doing Buddhist things without ever knowing Buddhism? Just curious, because I have yet to be able to bring myself to that state intentionally. As a beginner, I think I am trying too hard. Too much focus/goal in mind.

Jeffrey

I would imagine that was awareness, but clearly awareness can also take other forms. The clouds are made of the light.

Sabre

Hi Yishai,

When you use meditation on the breath for example, the bodily sense will fade away and can even completely disappear. This can also happen to the other senses like sound. But it's just like falling asleep, first you never seem to know exactly when it happens. And second, if you want to fall asleep really bad it doesn't happen. So if you want to lose the feeling of your body, forget about it. Just the breath, just this moment.

I don't know what you mean with capital A Awareness. As Jeffrey said, awareness can be on anything. You are aware right now or you wouldn't read this

With metta,
Sabre

Dakini

Very cool, Yishai. All I can say is you seem to have a special gift of some sort. Could be a right/left brain thing. (Meditation is a right brain thing.) You might enjoy reading the book, "My Stroke of Insight", by a neurologist who had a stroke that affected only her left brain. Pretty fascinating stuff.

Sabre

Hi Dakini,

This is not a special gift and also not a brain thing. Everybody can develop it and it can go even much deeper. And luckily there is no need for a stroke, haha

Sabre

Dakini

Hi Dakini,
This is not a special gift and also not a brain thing. Everybody can develop it and it can go even much deeper. And luckily there is no need for a stroke, haha
Sabre

Really? This is the first I've heard of it. So this comes from steady meditation practice?

Sabre

Hi Dakini,
This is not a special gift and also not a brain thing. Everybody can develop it and it can go even much deeper. And luckily there is no need for a stroke, haha
Sabre

Really? This is the first I've heard of it. So this comes from steady meditation practice?

Yes. It happens when the mind becomes so one pointed even the breath disappears. Only mental awareness is left (that's probably why Yishai called it capital A awareness). It can also happen without meditation. I also had things similar to it as a kid, sort of accidentally. I guess the older we get the more attached to the senses we can become. To do it at will and to maintain it requires practice, but is certainly possible and in fact seen as the beginning development of right concentration in many (if not all) Buddhist traditions.

I believe some Tibetans call it 'calm abiding', others call it 'access concentration'. Some refer to it with '(formless) jhana' although I personally don't agree with that because it is no jhana yet. However, it has many names. I just gave these so you could try a google if you want.

Here is something for your (and Yishai's) interest:

Unexpected things may happen at this time; some people experience them, some don't. If they do arise, we should be firm and have strong mindfulness. Some people see that the breath has disappeared and get a fright, they're afraid they might die. Here we should know the situation just as it is. We simply notice that there's no breath and take that as our object of awareness. This, we can say, is the firmest, surest type of samadhi. There is only one firm, unmoving state of mind. Perhaps the body will become so light it's as if there is no body at all. We feel like we're sitting in empty space, all seems empty. Although this may seem very unusual, you should understand that there's nothing to worry about. Firmly establish your mind like this.

When the mind is firmly unified, having no sense impressions to disturb it, one can remain in that state for any length of time. There will be no painful feelings to disturb us. When samadhi has reached this level, we can leave it when we choose, but if we come out of this samadhi we do so comfortably, not because we've become bored with it or tired. We come out because we've had enough for now, we feel at ease, we have no problems at all.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/chah/atasteof.html

The title of this essay is called "A Taste of Freedom", which such a state certainly is.

With metta,
Sabre

Yishai

That Ajahn Chah quote was perfect. When I was younger I would only stay in that state for a few seconds, but as I've gotten older, I stay longer when it does happen (never intentionally). I suppose when my meditation takes me there, I will know I've begun to have right concentration. Also, if that is what dying is like, then that would be completely fine with me.

As for the difference between awareness and Awareness. When people say "be aware of your surroundings", that's just common awareness or heightened sensory awareness. The capital Awareness is what I was using to distinguish Buddhist/Mental Awareness where their is less sensory sensitivity but heightened mental state.

Dakini

That Ajahn Chah quote was perfect. When I was younger I would only stay in that state for a few seconds, but as I've gotten older, I stay longer when it does happen (never intentionally). I suppose when my meditation takes me there, I will know I've begun to have right concentration.

This is why I originally said Yishai has a gift. His experiences aren't a result of meditation practice, they happen spontaneously. That's impressive.

Sabre

That Ajahn Chah quote was perfect. When I was younger I would only stay in that state for a few seconds, but as I've gotten older, I stay longer when it does happen (never intentionally). I suppose when my meditation takes me there, I will know I've begun to have right concentration. Also, if that is what dying is like, then that would be completely fine with me.

As for the difference between awareness and Awareness. When people say "be aware of your surroundings", that's just common awareness or heightened sensory awareness. The capital Awareness is what I was using to distinguish Buddhist/Mental Awareness where their is less sensory sensitivity but heightened mental state.

Haha, pretty sure that's not what dying is like. Some people get scared when it happens because they think they don't breathe anymore.

Glad you liked the quote. It took me quite some time to get there and most of the time it doesn't happen or is unstable (doesn't last that long), but at least you know what's possible. And it can go even deeper..

Have fun meditating!

Sabre

Yishai

Haha, pretty sure that's not what dying is like. Some people get scared when it happens because they think they don't breathe anymore.

Glad you liked the quote. It took me quite some time to get there and most of the time it doesn't happen or is unstable (doesn't last that long), but at least you know what's possible. And it can go even deeper..

Have fun meditating!

Sabre

Well, it's good to know that I can cultivate that freedom. It's nice to know what it all means.

Metta

Sabre

That Ajahn Chah quote was perfect. When I was younger I would only stay in that state for a few seconds, but as I've gotten older, I stay longer when it does happen (never intentionally). I suppose when my meditation takes me there, I will know I've begun to have right concentration.

This is why I originally said Yishai has a gift. His experiences aren't a result of meditation practice, they happen spontaneously. That's impressive.

Well, I'm not impressed.

Sabre

Haha, pretty sure that's not what dying is like. Some people get scared when it happens because they think they don't breathe anymore.

Glad you liked the quote. It took me quite some time to get there and most of the time it doesn't happen or is unstable (doesn't last that long), but at least you know what's possible. And it can go even deeper..

Have fun meditating!

Sabre

Well, it's good to know that I can cultivate that freedom. It's nice to know what it all means.

Metta

Two more things:

First, I'd also read the rest of the essay. Especially to say, if you want this freedom too bad it will never happen and -although useful- it is not the real goal of Buddhism in itself.

Second, you might want to consult an approved meditation teacher. I'm just a clumsy lay person trying to do his best. But be ware not all teachers develop this, some do vipassana kind of noting stuff, which I personally don't think is that useful for it'll probably not get you in this state. Or at least not for me.

Metta back!
Sabre

Yishai

I understand that meditation should be goal-less. Will do the rest of the reading . There is a Seon school close by and they meet tomorrow.

Tikal2012

Hey, Yishai.
From what you described, it sounds a little bit as if you might have naturally been entering into any of the formless (arupa) Jhanas.

Sabre

The jhanas are deeper than this.

Yishai

I don't think it even comes close to the first jhana, let alone the arupa jhanas. What I have experienced with this awareness is not matured or deep or substantial. If anything, just a tiny tiny part of what could possibly be if I continue to cultivate mindfulness.