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Did Buddha? Or do most Buddhists believe in Evolution?
federicaSeeker of the clear blue sky...Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubtModerator
More soapbox tit-for-tat bickering. You guys are truly hopeless.... Moved to general banter. I'll move it back to 'advanced ideas' once you guys quit showing us how truly great you are at knowing everything better than anyone else.
What a belief in reincarnation up and down the animal kingdom does show is a belief that fundamentally, all life is the same and that includes the human being. If one believes a cow's body is compatible enough to house the atman or essence of a human, then there is something that humans and the rest of life hold in common on the most fundamental level. So evolutionary theory would have fertile ground.
Contrast this to the Abrahamic religions and the belief that humans are a special creation outside of the other animals of the natural world, which were all created as they now appear in their modern forms. Only humans have souls and animals were put there for our benefit. If this is taken literally, evolution becomes a problem. It's no wonder some deeply religious people feel they have to choose between their beliefs or evolution.
Yet this Western culture--one that is deeply woven around a religion that rejects a common bond with nature--produced the theory of evolution. Go figure.
More soapbox tit-for-tat bickering. You guys are truly hopeless.... Moved to general banter. I'll move it back to 'advanced ideas' once you guys quit showing us how truly great you are at knowing everything better than anyone else.
My thought exactly. Ego City here gang. Back it down a couple of notches.
I don't see how biological evolution and rebirth (not reincarnation, which is wholly a different matter) are even related. One has nothing whatever to do with the other that I can see.
the point Guy was making, I think, is that there's no reason why both processes can't occur simultaneously. Humans and animals continue to evolve, and rebirths continue to take place in sentient beings as they evolve physically. Is this really so hard to grasp? It's not changing evolution theory, it's blending Buddhist beliefs with evolution theory, looking at evolution through Buddhist-colored glasses. Some Buddhists will tend to do this. It doesn't mean everyone has to believe in rebirth, or that to accept evolution, one has to also accept rebirth, or that we have to debate rebirth! It just means that Buddhist views are compatible with evolution, ergo, contemporary Buddhists would have no reason to reject evolution. Unlike a certain other religion that we don't need to name, some sects of which do reject evolution.
I don't see how biological evolution and rebirth (not reincarnation, which is wholly a different matter) are even related. One has nothing whatever to do with the other that I can see.
the point Guy was making, I think, is that there's no reason why both processes can't occur simultaneously. Humans and animals continue to evolve, and rebirths continue to take place in sentient beings as they evolve physically. Is this really so hard to grasp? It's not changing evolution theory, it's blending Buddhist beliefs with evolution theory, looking at evolution through Buddhist-colored glasses. Some Buddhists will tend to do this. It doesn't mean everyone has to believe in rebirth, or that to accept evolution, one has to also accept rebirth, or that we have to debate rebirth! It just means that Buddhist views are compatible with evolution, ergo, contemporary Buddhists would have no reason to reject evolution. Unlike a certain other religion that we don't need to name, some sects of which do reject evolution.
CW, follow the posts back and you will find someone did mention that the processes were likely working off one another, not just occurring simultaneously.
Naturally, we all have the right to modify concepts to fit our beliefs or belief systems, but we don't have the right to change the scientific definition of something.
And I think you do have to differentiate evolution -- to which there is lots of evidence -- from rebirth (et. al.), which has not been scientifically proven.
And, again, speaking of that "other religion"...just keep in mind that as I was studying the geosciences and paleontology at university, all of my professors who taught or touched on evolution, were all church-going Christians.
I don't see this, BTW, as an "ego city" thread...it's just a debate, and just as valuable -- perhaps more valuable -- than threads about things like whether Star Wars in a Buddhist movie.
I don't see this as an "ego city" thread, either. How sad that it was characterized as such. There have been many thoughtful and interesting posts here. Not fair to paint everyone with the same brush, just because of one member trying to provoke people. I'm enjoying the thread. The OP was: do most Buddhists believe in evolution? While we can't answer the question precisely, without taking a global poll, we can say that evolution doesn't conflict with Buddhist principles, so there's no reason why Buddhists couldn't accept evolution. And although rebirth and evolution have nothing to do with each other, there's no reason why they couldn't go hand-in-hand. To combine them is not to change the scientific definition of something. No one is saying that rebirth is part of evolution, except perhaps one member, let's not get stuck on one person's view out of the many interesting posts here.
There is, however, some fairly recent scientific research that says suffering does become genetically encoded, it alters the genome. The field of epigenetics has discovered that if a generation suffers famine, for example, their descendents' bodies will have an altered response to food. This falls short of saying that karma directs evolution, but those inclined to view the world through Buddhist teachings might interpret it that way. Epigenetics is a fascinating field.
I don't see how biological evolution and rebirth (not reincarnation, which is wholly a different matter) are even related. One has nothing whatever to do with the other that I can see.
the point Guy was making, I think, is that there's no reason why both processes can't occur simultaneously.
Comments
You guys are truly hopeless....
Moved to general banter.
I'll move it back to 'advanced ideas' once you guys quit showing us how truly great you are at knowing everything better than anyone else.
Contrast this to the Abrahamic religions and the belief that humans are a special creation outside of the other animals of the natural world, which were all created as they now appear in their modern forms. Only humans have souls and animals were put there for our benefit. If this is taken literally, evolution becomes a problem. It's no wonder some deeply religious people feel they have to choose between their beliefs or evolution.
Yet this Western culture--one that is deeply woven around a religion that rejects a common bond with nature--produced the theory of evolution. Go figure.
Naturally, we all have the right to modify concepts to fit our beliefs or belief systems, but we don't have the right to change the scientific definition of something.
And I think you do have to differentiate evolution -- to which there is lots of evidence -- from rebirth (et. al.), which has not been scientifically proven.
And, again, speaking of that "other religion"...just keep in mind that as I was studying the geosciences and paleontology at university, all of my professors who taught or touched on evolution, were all church-going Christians.
I don't see this, BTW, as an "ego city" thread...it's just a debate, and just as valuable -- perhaps more valuable -- than threads about things like whether Star Wars in a Buddhist movie.
There is, however, some fairly recent scientific research that says suffering does become genetically encoded, it alters the genome. The field of epigenetics has discovered that if a generation suffers famine, for example, their descendents' bodies will have an altered response to food. This falls short of saying that karma directs evolution, but those inclined to view the world through Buddhist teachings might interpret it that way. Epigenetics is a fascinating field.