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Kadampa again

carbonunitcarbonunit
edited August 2010 in Buddhism Basics
HH hates the NKT, and I know that to the experienced they are new and different. This forum welcomes debate and discussions about other faiths and welcomes visitors from other faiths with courtesy and respect. Surely the NKT are still Buddhists and deserve the same respect no matter how misguided they may seem to some. I am curios to know which other forms of Buddhism are on the blocked list. I think that the real question is have they really crossed the divide?

Comments

  • FrizzerFrizzer
    edited January 2006
    Dark Zen is another such group
    Also SGI seem to get bad press as well.

    I don't know anything about these groups though, it's just the impression I've got from hanging around on here and e-Sangha.
  • JasonJason God Emperor Arrakis Moderator
    edited January 2006
    carbonunit,

    Care should definitley be taken in choosing a teacher or Sangha.

    There are many that have "crossed the divide" in my opinion, but I don't think that makes them taboo to speak about. If a perosn and/or group disects the Buddha's teachings inappropriately, misrepresents them, and then teaches these wrong views to others in the name of the Buddha, it should be pointed out as such. The Dhamma-vinyana is not like the teachngs of Jesus. The Buddha's words were very well preserved. I am sure that along its 2,600 year history there have been some errors and additions, but an ardent practitioner can easily dig through all of the fluff and get right to heart of the matter.

    But, this can often depend on you having a good teacher to begin with [to help get you started out in the right direction]. If you get a bad teacher, you will be all the worse for it. That is why the Buddha taught the Culagopalaka Sutta. In this Sutta, the Buddha compares his monks to cowherders. An unwise cowherder leads his cows to injury and death, and an unwise monk does the same to his disciples [spiritual, and maybe even mentally/physically]:

    Bhikkhus, in the past, there was a foolish cowherd, in Magadha. At the end of the rains, in Autumn he did not reflect the hither bank, nor the thither bank and even without a ford made his herd cross the river to go to the other bank. That herd in the midddle of the river got caught in a whirlpool of the stream and came to destruction. What is the reason: As the foolish cowherd of Magadha at the end of the rains, in Autumn without reflecting the hither bank or the thither bank and without a ford would make his herd cross to the other bank of river Ganges. Likewise if someone listens and takes faith in such recluses and brahmins, not clever of this world, or the other world, not clever about the domain of death, or the domain of non-death, not clever about the sphere of death, or the sphere of non- death, it would be for their undoing and unpleasantness for a long time.

    Just a word of warning for you and/or everyone else to think about.

    :)

    Jason
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    * Just as an aside, as far as I am aware, there is no ban or prevention on any one specific group from coming onto this forum. The same unofficial "Rules, Reg's and Guidelines" that I have already outlined elsewhere, would apply to them....
    Until somebody proves themselves incapable of following the RR&G, there is no reason to prevent anyone coming in. *
  • zenmonk_genryuzenmonk_genryu
    edited January 2006
    The new Kadampa (as distinguished from Kadampa) tradition are problematic, and I think it prudent to be concerned but would also add that all the practitioners I have met from this tradition are very sincere. The problem in my experience is that they don't really have a grounding in the basics of Buddhism and tend to have a very skewed view of the Dharma, beyond the normal differences in emphasis one finds in any Buddhist tradition generally.
  • carbonunitcarbonunit
    edited January 2006
    Thanks all, my experience with the NKT mirrors the experience that the other have had, except that I actually bought the book:o . But I did go and have a look for myself, if I am going to be eaten by sharks then I to see their teeth. It is noticeable that certain schools of Buddhism are making themselves more accessible whilst not actually canvassing openly for new members. What is alarming is that they tend to be forms that are a bit far from centre for me, which is a blow as I thought Buddhism on a whole was more homogenous.

    I am relieved however that all are welcome at this forum even if they may not be on the most ideal path. This forum has been an eye opener and educating for me and I always astounded to find that my questions have already been covered when I do a search. Now, will those "Dark Zen" guys let me wear my Darth Vader suit?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited January 2006
    I'm sure there'd be no problem... But don't match it with the fluffy pink stillettos.... Street cred, my friend....Street cred!
  • SoleilDamourSoleilDamour
    edited August 2010
    zenmonk_genryu wrote: »
    The problem in my experience is that they don't really have a grounding in the basics of Buddhism and tend to have a very skewed view of the Dharma, beyond the normal differences in emphasis one finds in any Buddhist tradition generally.

    I know this post is old but if you are still around, I would like you to elaborate on this. Your statement does not have any grounding nor examples on how New Kadampa have a 'very skewed' view of the Dharma. If it is so skewed, then it should be obvious to you and most practitionners - it is not. What I have read so far from opponents of New Kadampa is based on speculations. I think everyone who comes up with something negative to say about it should humble themselves and visit a center in their area. You will soon discover that the Dharma taught in the classes is absolutely wonderful.
  • SoleilDamourSoleilDamour
    edited August 2010
    carbonunit wrote: »
    even if they may not be on the most ideal path.

    who do you think you are to judge that people may or may not be on the right path? There is a whole lot of judging in these posts... hum... maybe most of the blog writers need to get on the right path? ;)
  • mugzymugzy Veteran
    edited August 2010
    Another thread about NKT bumped again... if there is nothing new to add, can we please stop debating their legitimacy?
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited August 2010
    SoleilDamour wrote: »
    I know this post is old but if you are still around, I would like you to elaborate on this. Your statement does not have any grounding nor examples on how New Kadampa have a 'very skewed' view of the Dharma. If it is so skewed, then it should be obvious to you and most practitionners - it is not. What I have read so far from opponents of New Kadampa is based on speculations. I think everyone who comes up with something negative to say about it should humble themselves and visit a center in their area. You will soon discover that the Dharma taught in the classes is absolutely wonderful.

    ZenMonk is no longer around. He was banned some considerable time ago.
    Currently, neither is carbonunit. He last posted in August 2009.

    The reasons threads are closed is not because NKT is banned from discussion.
    It's because people can't stop bickering, it becomes uncivilised, undignified and frankly, tiresome.
    The day people can evidence that this topic can be discussed without tempers fraying or without people getting warm under the collar, threads will remain open.
    Until then, threads get shut.
    As this one now has.
    I would strongly advise opening a new one, really, for the good of everyone.
    Just let it be.

    Ok?
This discussion has been closed.