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Vajrayana, only Tibetan?

budding_flowerbudding_flower
edited June 2011 in Buddhism Today
I know that this topic may have been discussed before. But is Vajrayana confined to Tibet? From my understanding and research there have been also esoteric movements in China too. Is there any kind of current Vajrayana school besides the Tibetan one...?

Comments

  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    This came up just a couple of weeks ago, this same question. There's Vajrayana in Japan (Shingon), in Vietnam, and China. Japan got its Vajrayana tradition from China. Tibet's came from India.
  • budding_flowerbudding_flower
    What is the thread that discusses the matter CW?
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    My recollection is that the thread title was almost identical to yours. Maybe the only way to find it is to go through the back pages of the "All Discussions" listings. Probably now, if you try to Google it or do a search on this site, it'll only lead you back to your own thread.

    Actually, as I recall, the thread kind of flopped, because no one had any info on Vajrayana practices in other traditions. So I don't think you missed anything. Maybe you'll have better luck this time around. :)
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I read in wikipedia last week that there was tantra in the theravada from BCE 800 to 1000. I can't find it anymore so I swear.

    Other than that knowledge I believe vajrayana is only in Tibet nominally. If you study Tibetan buddhism you might argue that traces of the vajrayana appear in all branches of buddhism. At least thats what my aol chat leader had said.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    I came across some fascinating info recently (can't remember where :p) about Tantra among Nepal's Newar minority. They're a small Tibetan ethnic group that migrated south from Tibet long ago, and evolved their own form of Vajrayana practice. I think they speak an ancient form of Tibetan that includes vocab from pre-Tibetan Tibet, from the kingdom of Zhang Zhung, in Western Tibet.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    What is the thread that discusses the matter CW?
    @budding_flower,

    Here's the thread I believe he's referring to, and it looks like you started it!

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/10558/vajrayana:-only-tibetan
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    China, Japan, Burma, Nepal... and of course now all over the world. "Vajrayana" is an Indian term so maybe it originated there. I just checked Wikipedia quickly and it looks like it may have its roots there or in Bengal...

    Vajrayana
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    CW its in the general banter of the Did buddha teach tantra thread NOT digga digga question. It was vajraheart's contribution.
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    edited June 2011
    No, I was referring to a thread with a very similar title to this one. Turns out budding_flower has duplicated his/her own thread!

    Yeah, Vajraheart did an encyclopedic post about what came first: Buddhism or Hindu tantra. But Vajrayana (i.e. Tantric Buddhism) did come from India, Padmasambhava brought it from India to Tibet. But I think there was a second transmission line that went from India directly to China, which developed its own version, that later was brought into Japan. Vietnamese tantra also comes from China, I'm pretty sure.
  • SattvaPaulSattvaPaul South Wales, UK Veteran
    So to answer @budding_flower's question "Is there any kind of current Vajrayana school besides the Tibetan one...?" I think the only "active" Vajrayana school outside Tibet would be Shingon. Am I right?
  • compassionate_warriorcompassionate_warrior Veteran
    There's Newari Vajrayana in Nepal, that's very active. And I assume Vietnamese Vajrayana is active, though you rarely (if ever) hear about it.
  • SherabDorjeSherabDorje
    Wikipedia:

    Chinese Esoteric Buddhism

    Esoteric traditions in China are similar in teachings to the Japanese Shingon school, though the number of practitioners was greatly reduced, due in part of the persecution of Buddhists under Emperor Wuzong of Tang, nearly wiping out most of the Chinese Esoteric Buddhist lineage. In China and countries with large Chinese populations such as Taiwan, Malaysia and Singapore, Chinese Esoteric Buddhism is commonly referred as Tángmì (唐密) "Tang Dynasty Secret Buddhism," or Hànchuánmìzōng (漢傳密宗) "Secret Buddhism of the Han Transmission" (Hànmì 漢密 for short), or Dōngmì (東密) "Eastern Secret Buddhism." In a more general sense, the Chinese term Mìzōng (密宗) "The Secret Way", is the most popular term used when referring to any form of Esoteric Buddhism. These traditions more or less share the same doctrines as the Shingon school, with many of its students themselves traveling to Japan to be given transmission at Mount Koya.

    According to Master Hsuan Hua, the most popular example of esoteric teachings still practiced in many Zen monasteries of East Asia, is the Śūraṅgama Sūtra and its dhāraṇī (Sitātapatroṣṇīṣa Dhāraṇī), along with the Great Compassion Dharani (Nīlakaṇṭha Dhāranī), with its 42 Hands and Eyes Mantras.[34]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana#Chinese_Esoteric_Buddhism
  • budding_flowerbudding_flower
    What is the thread that discusses the matter CW?
    @budding_flower,

    Here's the thread I believe he's referring to, and it looks like you started it!

    http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/10558/vajrayana:-only-tibetan
    Yes indeed @sattvapaul, this is my thread... :lol:
  • budding_flowerbudding_flower
    Thnx guys, for going through this again... I had forgoten my old thread completely.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    haha! It's ok. Seems like the thread was a little more successful this time around.
  • budding_flowerbudding_flower
    @Dakini :p
  • federicafederica Seeker of the clear blue sky... Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt Moderator
    edited June 2011
    To avoid confusion, I have now deleted the old thread, in case of mistaken revival in 2 years' time....
    It happens. :D
  • mantra0mantra0

    There's the Bhutanese one
  • tjampeltjampel
    Also no one has mentioned Mongolia; one of the Dalai Lamas was actually Mongolian (the 6th); he didn't last long, unfortunately.

    And, India of course; it's been practiced in Ladakh and Zongskar for over 1000 years, not to mention the Tibetan diaspora, of course.

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