Question on a Sutra

MindGate

In a sutra, they are speaking of enlightened people, and they say:

Also, he must refrain from any action
That gives the wise reason to reprove him.


What does that mean?

Jeffrey

take cues from the wise because they can lead you right

santhisouk

Means to avoid acting foolishly. Perhaps because if one looks foolish people who are suffering will not come to you for guidance, so you should try to be a person of your wisdom so that you can help others and spread loving-kindness and goodwill.

regards

Jason

I'd say it means "Don't do stupid shit if you want to be happy." Stupid shit being unskillful things that 'the wise' would censure, which I'd guess is killing, stealing, lying, committing sexual misconduct and getting wasted.

I think Buddharakkhita's translation is a little misleading, though, in that I don't think this sutta is limited to people who have already experienced the 'state of peace' as much as it's directed towards anyone who wants to experience it, or experience it further in the case of stream-enterers, etc. Check out Nanamoli Thera's translation, for example. Or Amaravati's.

Jeffrey

I should take my cues and read more eh?

santhisouk

@Jason I agree. I looked at Buddharakkhita's translation and thought I was reading a direct translation.

Cinorjer

In a sutra, they are speaking of enlightened people, and they say:

Also, he must refrain from any action
That gives the wise reason to reprove him.


What does that mean?

Seems pretty self explaining. By "the wise" they mean the other high ranking monks in the organization. These sutras were not written to describe the lone wolf hermit meditator wandering the countryside. It's a list of behavior expected for the temple hierarchy. Scandals are not a modern invention.

SherabDorje

If otherwise sane and insightful people would consider what you're doing as wrong, strongly enough to tell you so, don't do it.

kaci

another way to think about this: it refers to the faculty of shame with a common sense approach - the idea is to use our natural sense of what would be shameful to inform and motivate the current action and to encourage conscientiousness (apamada - aka "heedfulness"). assuming one has some understanding of virtue, ie. goodwill/kindness, generosity, attentiveness, and so on, this is a general admonishment to remember wise people and to refrain from what one knows intuitively would be shameful. it is good to remember the context here as well, the character traits to nourish are listed higher up in the sutta - so what is being described is a general character development, in a sense it recognizes that an ego (or sociopersonal matrix - my term) exists and this being so the thing to do is to "tune" it to moral and social principles, the purpose of which is to harmonize and reduce friction and conflict with "the way things are" such that greater peace is possible both from a personal perspective and in relationships with others.

i guess i should confess that this sutta has become the basis of a central approach for me in living and provides a really powerful set of flexible guidelines that result in a wellspring of sukha (..opposite of dukkha) and passaadhi (peace) in my own experience ... dissolves kilesas .. try it, you'll like it!