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Does the sex you have in any way resemble pornography??

edited July 2011 in General Banter
Why is 99% of porn shown so raunchy, is that what people want to see..?

Comments

  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    Depends on the individual. Obviously it sells. So I guess it's what somebody wants.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    its hard to know what your talking about exactly.. as it is the case we can't link to porn clips and discuss haha
  • zombiegirlzombiegirl beating the drum of the lifeless in a dry wasteland Veteran
    sometimes i think people wish to dehumanize it and boil it down to the "naughty bits" as it were. porn overtly emphasizes the sexual aspect of sex but typically does not touch on the emotional aspect. there are of course exceptions to this rule. one thing that comes to mind are erotic romance novels, which can involve a large back story between characters, creating an emotional connection that although fake, readers may empathize with.

    but no, i don't think that most people's sex is accurately portrayed by pornos. pornography is a visual medium, so there is of course a certain amount of acting and stage blocking and what have you that goes into its production, just like any movie. simply put, what looks good doesn't always feel good.
  • edited July 2011
    Well...porn, if you're talking about videos, used to be for men. That doesn't explain anything, though. It used to involve violence and degradation of women, but hasn't it changed for the better? I guess it used to cater to a certain sleaaze crowd. Now there's "erotica", which is about men and women sharing equal power. So maybe you're checking out the wrong stuff, sam-girl. Porn and erotica are two different things. But it's sad that there's a demand for the "raunchy" stuff. I guess it's sad that everyone isn't in happy relationships and has no need for that stuff at all. Dream on.

    What do you all think about the issue of porn vs. the 1st amendment? Do films portraying women being slapped around and degraded violate laws against material that incites violence? Is porn "hate speech"? Hate speech and hate crimes are illegal in the US. Why isn't porn, which singles out a class of people for violent and degrading acts, a form of "hate speech"? What if instead of women, they had White guys tying up and beating up helpless Black guys? Would it be legal then?
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2011
    I haven't seen much porn that is violent. In my experience both the man and the woman appear to be rather enjoying themselves.

    I think violent porn would be a kinky subset of porn.
  • lack of imagination
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    I can't imagine that the old-fashioned violent porn appealed to too many people (at least--I hope not :p ) . I can't imagine how that industry made much money. The legal questions about it came up especially with "snuff" films, where women were killed on film. I'm not sure, but I think there were some actual cases of that. Anyway, good topic you raise, C_W. Freedom of speech shouldn't protect material that can incite violence.

    I don't think all porn is raunchy. I think it's changed since the old days, but I haven't checked. Try looking for some "erotica", sam. It's supposed to be from a woman's perspective.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    what does 'raunchy' mean? I have never heard that defined. I heard that used 'oh it was kinda raunchy' and understood to mean that it was sexual.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited July 2011
    "sexual" isn't raunchy. Is sex raunchy by nature? If so, why? :scratch: I hope society has evolved past that idea. :p "Raunchy" I think means sleazy, depressing, exploitive and degrading of women, may include violence. Feel free to contribute, sam. The old porn was violent, and women were helpless, and would get beat-up by pimps, and who knows what else. If there wasn't violence, it was classified as "soft porn". That was before "erotica" was invented, which is what your viewing experience sounds like it was,Jeffrey--erotica. Just two people enjoying themselves. Pleasure for the woman as well as for the man. That was a revolutionary concept at one time.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    raun·chy (rônch, rän-)
    adj. raun·chi·er, raun·chi·est Slang
    1.
    a. Obscene, lewd, or vulgar: "[He] uses language so aggressively raunchy that he seems to be insisting his choice of vocabulary, at least, is no sin" (Wall Street Journal).
    b. Sexually explicit.
    c. Exhibiting lust.
    2. Grimy; unkempt: a raunchy closet full of dirty socks.
  • DaltheJigsawDaltheJigsaw Mountain View Veteran
    edited July 2011
    When I was younger it did, but as older I get the more it becomes Tantra like.
    Great thread!!
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2011
    Different porn has different vibes, but I haven't seen violence. So say a woman is shown in a mask in the bathtub playing with her body? Obviously that is kinky. I guess it could happen in a relationship, but in my experiences aside from maybe some dancing together I never did too many strip teases. Ok it also apeals to a fetish of bathing. Perhaps there are guys who are specifically turned on by a woman washing herself. Woman might watch this too so you can't say it is 'for men' yet the majority of subscribers are men. Ok then this babe in the mask after this teasing viewing of her body with props the man walks up and she does a oral pleasure. How much is there to that? Why do people watch it? That part of the sex probably happens in real life. Is it focusing on the man? Yes. Is it violent? No.

    It turns out on what I have seen there are way more depictions of the man getting oral than the woman getting oral. I don't personally understand this because I don't pretend that I am getting what the man is getting rather I am visually excited by the bodies at the least if not some kind of creativity, creativity being rather rare. I would rather see the woman's body than the mans so I don't understand this fully.

    An example of creativity, ok thats just a word its not mozart but something more to it than taking clothes off oral sex then penetration. Ok maybe it is more creative a scene of a physical therapist coming over and pretending to give stretching demonstrations, so shameful, but that is more interesting because theres the tension of 'whats going to happen' and the enactment of wanting but not knowing when its going to happen.

    I have never seen violence in visual porn. Plenty of extremely disturbing written porn. Which is different because there are no actors coerced to the writers vision. It is just a disturbed writer posting on a website without any censure of the stories.

    So the question is whether the porn is raunchy? Is the woman in a mask giving a show and oral sex?? Is that raunchy? Why the bath and mask? Ok that never happened to me, but is it raunchy? Is that what is meant by raunchy?


  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    edited July 2011
    it is more about "Rule 34"...

    does beautiful agony counts as erotica or porn?
    should this be on member's only?
  • Rugby on tv is soft porn.. Depending where one's mind is set. Is celibacy meerly refraining from physical sexual contact with another person, or does it include sex dreams and fantasy/thinking of sex? (I have not had physical sex with another person for 18 years :o)
  • @YogiBear

    celibacy is a dead end dogma...
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I don't have a sutra reference yogi :).. I would think that it referred to the physical because in meditation you welcome all thoughts and return to the breath. So one would not try to suppress sexual phantasies. The dalai lama probably has sexual phantasies.
  • edited July 2011
    Jeffrey, I think your example, part 2 (the oral sex) is for men. Men watch that. Men want to fantasize about women doing that to them. How often do you see the opposite scenario? Pretty rarely, if ever.

    There you go with the Dalai Lama again! I think he deserves some privacy, don't you? :rolleyes:

    Thanks for the definition of "raunchy". If all raunchy is, is sexually explicit, then... :-/ ...what does the OP question mean? Is there porn or erotica that isn't explicit? If it's not explicit, is it erotica/porn? Or is it just an arty film? Hello? OP? Can you tell us what you mean by "raunchy"?

    Yogi: if the Vinaya can serve as a guide, the Buddha apparently felt that celibacy included no masturbation. Sex dreams were ok, considered involuntary. Indulging in fanatasies? Probably a no-no. There's the thing about right speech, right thought, and all that. But I'm no expert. But I'd say fantasies can lead to a physiological effect, so if you're celibate, why set yourself up for misery? It's counterproductive. So probably not allowed.
  • By raunchy I meant, more hardcore then the sex you would normally have.
  • What's is this thing called "sex"?
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    What's is this thing called "sex"?
    lol ! Poor Mountains! What about: what is this thing called "sleep"? What is this thing called "leisure"?
    By raunchy I meant, more hardcore then the sex you would normally have.
    idk, girl. Maybe you're looking in the wrong places? Jeffrey says he hasn't seen anything like that.

    I think it's what the porn industry thinks people want to see. You sure can come up with some ... non-buddhistic questions... :eek2:
  • @Dakini sex is a part of life just as much as anything else, in fact sometimes more. I think it's completely relevant.
  • I have to admit, sam, your OP title question was a bit personal--asking people what kind of sex they're having? But the question in the OP itself was a completely different question, and perfectly reasonable.
  • It's not so much that people want to see it, they just don't mind it, because they can cherry pick the images, while ignoring the human element. Money changes hands and a person volunteers to have something 'done to them'.

    The resemblance between the porn and sex happens on a superficial level. Irrespective of whether or not a power dynamic and/or an element of edgyness is present, the important consideration is why a person is in xxx situation and whether they're into it or not. In other words the presence of the person is an important element. What we're given in porn are a series of stereotypes in terms of sex, age, race, penis and breast size, occupation, marital status etc
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    We are given stereotypes in soap operas too.. I think you have to look at the motivatinos to connect back to humanity. One person has sexual needs. I'm not going to go there with judging if they should be satisfied with their partner alone. But in many cases anyhow the people are alone. We are mammals who are 'in season' the entire year. So the motivation is to get a release from that urge. I am not speaking mainly for the person who goes to porn for 'intellectual' stimulation of images, rather I am talking about someone who wants to consumate an energy release.

    Its true there is cherry picking, but that isn't inherently bad. Wouldn't it be nice if we were all in our 20s? Its arbitrary to say that the experience of sagging aging bodies 'puts hair on your chest' and makes you able to shit large bricks of decency.

    As far as the ladies in the business its a more kind meat market than the butcher's. Most of the harm is inflicted by the stigma in society and not inherently. Imagine a proud father... gee I am happy for you son, you really made a great living showing your body, keeping in shape and performing.

    Sexual shame does not validate judgementalism of sex actors or sex viewers. In fact since you mention stereotypes I think the stereotype of a sex actor itself is quite prominent.



  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    I've heard stories of friends who have crazy sex, porno-like sex. Some of my guy friends try to last in bed for exceptionally long periods of time. I think they do it because that's what pornography tells them to do.

    I remember staying up all night. Round after round. Nowadays it's completely different. Kinda like: don't spend too long, be more intimate. Almost like mindful sex
  • VincenziVincenzi Veteran
    edited July 2011
    @Jeffrey

    one picks partners too...

    Edit: wasn't sure of what cherry picking meant exactly.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Thats a good point vincenzi.. cherry picking I think as owner of socks meant is that the person is picking out only the good mouthwatering bacon wrapped bacon deep fried with ranch dipping sauce. But I think its shortsided in that wherever you go there is suffering to learn from, a relationship is not unique in exposure to joy and sorrow.

    In american football youths the quarterback would get the ball (no linemen its just kids) and then the guys go out for a pass. A cherry picker doesn't run hard back and forth they just run out not deep but far enough and then wait. If someone gets bored and creeps foreward then they get open and get a pass. "cherry picker" Maybe its basketball it happens I forget??


  • No, "cherry-picking" is picking the parts you like, and leaving what you don't like. Like Buddhists who say they don't believe in rebirth and other things (i don't want to start a discussion on rebirth, it's just an example). someone who says, I don't believe in karma, I don't believe in rebirth, I don't believe in no-self, but I practice mindfulness and I meditate, and accept the 4 Noble Truths. That's cherry-picking your beliefs.

    (Just an example, people, I'm not passing judgment on anyone, just trying to explain an expression to Vincenzi.
    *whew* :hiding: )
  • @compassionate_warrior

    samsaraputram (children of suffering) cherry pick partners too... by ignoring the defects.
  • simply put, what looks good doesn't always feel good.
    Exactly. In a viewing or acting situation there can be a swithing off of emotion taking place, which is perhaps not such a good thing for a person stiving to be more compassionate. Easy to think that those who do the legwork are superheroes with nerves of steel, but is that really a good thing for a hardening to take place? I feel that some forms of *pornography require an emotional 'stunting'- *(that which appears to be more sensationalist or shocking)

    Even if we look at the odd nude pic it can still be hurtful to a partner. A lot of the testimonials I've read usually involve a sensitive girl being shocked and upset by their mans porn use. He doesn't want to give it up, sometimes tries 'acting out' or refusing sex, and the intimacy wanes. For a conscientious individual the feelings of guilt and remorse are important to recognize the hurt caused to a significant other. I feel bad because they do.

    If a person has no conscience, or chooses to switch off emotion in favour of an uncomplicated sensation, it may become more difficult to assess, second or first hand another persons state of mind, and impossible (second hand) to know anything beyond the medium of computer screen relating to a persons life (such as favourite colour, for example).



  • Sexual shame does not validate judgementalism of sex actors or sex viewers.
    If I look at myself as both the viewer and performer, I can see it on different levels. As a viewer I see myself performing a 'degrading act' and choose to think I couldn't possibly enjoy that sort of thing because that's what I think everybody else thinks too- the voice of many. On another level I can empathize with myself, having been in the situation and knowing it isn't degrading because it didn't feel that way at the time.

    But anyway, I feel that empathy is an important step towards the reduction of sexual shame.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    Try metta meditation when you do it. Wish yourself and all beings happiness.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Hey, sam--check out the thread on "What it means to be a man". Turns out LOTS of guys are having the kind of sex that is freaking you out. We should ALL be freaked out by the prevalence of this, of the attitudes that give rise to it.
  • Hey, sam--check out the thread on "What it means to be a man". Turns out LOTS of guys are having the kind of sex that is freaking you out. We should ALL be freaked out by the prevalence of this, of the attitudes that give rise to it.
    is this a really new thread? I check most days of the week and haven't looked one thread similar to the one you just mentioned.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    Yes, Vincenzi, it's a new thread, I think it's new today. I only noticed it about an hour ago. Right now it's at the top of the listings on the main board. There's a video to watch. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion of what is said.

    Personally, I question how common this complex of attitudes towards women is (including violence or other abuse).
  • A one night stand I had once told me there are three types of ways to have sex.
    Making love, having sex, and f*cking. One can imagine those in their heads and they probably look a lot different. With this woman I could tell she wanted to be f*cked, so that was the style I used on her. But with my current girl I have sex and make love with her. So in my opinion that's the difference right there between the styles of sex.

    I'm sure they can all be good depending on the mood. Different strokes for different folks.
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    A one night stand I had once told me there are three types of ways to have sex.
    Making love, having sex, and f*cking. One can imagine those in their heads and they probably look a lot different. With this woman I could tell she wanted to be f*cked, so that was the style I used on her. But with my current girl I have sex and make love with her. So in my opinion that's the difference right there between the styles of sex.

    I'm sure they can all be good depending on the mood. Different strokes for different folks.
    Yeah, but I bet you don't slap women around and degrade them. eewwwww!
    That's Mr. Serenity: always pithy, always honest. In a good way! In a good way. ; )
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