Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Examples: Monday, today, last week, Mar 26, 3/26/04
Welcome home! Please contact lincoln@icrontic.com if you have any difficulty logging in or using the site. New registrations must be manually approved which may take several days. Can't log in? Try clearing your browser's cookies.

Ants in the car

edited July 2011 in Buddhism Basics
I try my hardest to refrain from taking any life... a mosquito's, an ant's, anything. But I'm wondering would be acceptable in situations where the creature is impossible to remove unless it is killed. For example, let's say my car became covered in ants (in some way that I couldn't prevent). I would need my car, but it's unaccessible because of the ants. Are there any ways to remove the ants other than extermination?

Comments

  • Wait for the ants to return to their nest. The half eaten apple and biscuit crumbs were attracting them.
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    I offer them something like sugar water, they will go to it (some may drown). You just keep moving the water until they leave. I have used a feather duster to sweep them away (this doesn't seem to kill them, but takes a long time). The best thing you can do is clean really really well. When there is no food present, they will leave on their own accord (sugar water can help speed that up). If they are only on the outside... trey a fan or some other wind creating device.
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    Wait for the ants to return to their nest. The half eaten apple and biscuit crumbs were attracting them.
    Be careful of this, because if there is enough food, they may move the nest. Ever had an ant colony in your rice cooker... hahah.

  • edited July 2011
    If they are only on the outside... trey a fan or some other wind creating device.
    @tmottes

    I was going to suggest a leaf blower but that might be catastrophic. A bunch of philosophy students might do the trick, they're often full of hot air. But then you have a problem with an infestation of students!
  • That's where the sugar water comes in! Lead the philosophy students away!

    But for the responses, I would like to say I've come from a background that the way out of these situations has nearly always been, 'kill it'. I just needed insight out of this mindset.
  • CinorjerCinorjer Veteran
    edited July 2011
    Or you could stop obsessing about how to go through life without killing anything and just try to live a life where you pay attention to what you do and react correctly to a situation.

    My dog had to be wormed, and that meant killing the worms inside him. Was it good or bad for me to do so? After all, isn't all life sacred? Termites have been getting into the basement lately and either I spray bug killer all around the foundation or move out. So, should I let them have the house? Isn't killing bugs bad?

    Stop and think about your own example. If you've got a bunch of ants inside your car, and you refuse to kill them, what to you tell the family of the man you kill in the car accident when ants crawl up your legs while driving down the highway? You really need to think more in terms of correct response to a situation, instead of "killing bad, Buddhists don't kill, no matter what". So in traditional cultures, since killing fish is "bad" they buy the fish from the market after someone else has killed it and pretend that somehow makes it different. Wildly missing the point.

    You're not a monk wandering the sterile halls of a temple. You're a lay person trying to get by in life. I don't kill bugs when I can help it, prefering to let them alone to do what nature intends when possible, but I don't pretend there's any special good karma being racked up by letting a no killing rule interfere with a normal life.
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    I will agree that everything should be dealt with in the context of the problem. But he simply asked for humane ways to get rid of ants (specific to his situation). He never said if any of those didn't work, he wouldn't use his final option (death) and instead live with them. He has decided that trying hard to respect life is important to him. Each of us has a different tolerance for the amount of extra work it might take to prevent the needless harm to others. If taking an extra day out of his life to do a task with awareness results in sparing some suffering, why shouldn't he if he chooses? Your examples are not the same as his, the ants aren't eating his house and the car didn't eat some other animals shit and get a potentially deadly parasite from it. I should mention that most need to kill can be prevented with keeping things clean, doing proper maintenance, etc. Dogs when fed the right diet can have a really high strength acid that kills worms in their stomachs (not a sure fire thing though) If he needed to rush to the hospital in his car he would have a different situation he would have to weigh the ants' lives to that/those he was taking to the hospital. I am sure most of us would make the same decision and kill the ants. However, if you have the inclination and you do so in a mindful manner (it doesn't become abscent minded conditioning, which results in stupid actions), do so. If you don't want to bother, then don't.
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    Oh and I have TONS of ants at my place. I have started to experience and be in the experience of having ants crawl on me. It is just another sensation from my skin. The ants don't seem to bite me, they just wonder around, when they find no food they move on. Now if I was covered in fire ants, that would be another story.
  • A humane method of getting ants off your car, or more likely off your porch or sidewalk? Take a hose and spray them off, or just wait for them to finish their battle. Most of time when you see that sort of thing, it's two ant colonies, each trying to kill the other. They're ants, doing what ants do. If nothing ever killed the ants, they'd overrun the world. This insistance on the sacredness of all animal life and going through contortions to keep from killing a worm or fly is not the middle way.

    There is a balance to life, the same way there is a balance in nature if you understand that death is necessary and not some evil. The thoughtless and unnecessary taking of life is the problem, but it's the other extreme in an unbalanced life. Each day might bring a life and death choice. The choice might be between two lives. Sometimes, the correct choice is death. If you're standing around debating the precepts instead of doing the right thing, then you are not dealing with the correct situation.
  • Well, I will say I was just bringing up an example at random in order to get the point across. But, coincidentally enough, this morning when I left for work, sure enough there were a good number of ants around the doors. It wasn't enough to cause a problem, but I was aware of it. By the time I got off work, they had vanished.

    The examples you provided, cinorjer, are alternatives that can roughly apply, though. But the fish one I must disagree with. It is different that way. They didn't kill the fish themselves/no direct involvement with the killing of the fish. But to stay on point, I know killing can't always be avoided. I'm more thinking should something we see as a pest be killed because it is almost hardly interfering with our daily lives.
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    @Cinorjer
    Each day might bring a life and death choice. The choice might be between two lives. Sometimes, the correct choice is death.
    I read something to the effect that I die, so the garden can live. The garden dies, so I can live. Part of the whole interdependence thing :).

    And I agree there is absolutely a balance, but my whole point is that we don't need to accept/precipitate as much death as we do. There is already enough death in the world for me to try and abstain.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2011
    The metta is more valuable than the lives. You are the ants connection to the dharma they are in very unfortunate circumstance. You can wish they will be reborn happy or even with a chance to study the dharma. I agree with a certain extent to Cinorjer, but don't lose the metta. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    This is called mind training. Trungpa Rinpoche wrote a book I want to read about training the mind. Its about the tonglen slogans. You could do tonglen and breath in the pain of the ants. Breath out wishes of wholeness and wellness. See the spaciousness of existence in that both sources come and go can spring eternal and be put to rest.
  • This is called mind training. Trungpa Rinpoche wrote a book I want to read about training the mind. Its about the tonglen slogans. You could do tonglen and breath in the pain of the ants. Breath out wishes of wholeness and wellness. See the spaciousness of existence in that both sources come and go can spring eternal and be put to rest.
    I actually bought Pema Chodron's box set on the subject and I really love it!
Sign In or Register to comment.