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Isn't trying to be compassionate to someone you detest an attachment?
Lostie
Veteran
You will be compassionate to that person when you are ready. It takes time, if not it's just another form of suffering. Right?
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Comments
It takes time.
Can you truly be compassionate if you do not have sincere sympathy for someone/something?
Even if you try to be compassionate you are not actually until you are liberated from your own kleshas (greed, anger, delusion). AND you have the wisdom of emptiness (of skandas would be one type).
Until then it is just generosity you are giving not compassion. Generosity is the first step in the path, because with cultivation of generosity we are willing to give to ourselves a genuine giving letting go of the ego and going towards real things. Satisfying peace and happiness. Instead of ego.
practice tri-laksana instead of brahma-vihara... if you are having trouble with a specific someone.
Thus, you should desire to have compassion, but if you fail to have it, dont get mad at yourself.
Btw, if you detest someone, you are already lacking in compassion, and if you had more compassion, you would detest less.
Also, have compassion for yourself for suffering the feeling of detestation.
The Buddha advised people to try and deliberately cultivate this compassion. I very much doubt that he would advise people to cultivate attachments that cause suffering.
I agree with your second statement on attachment to being surrounded with people whom you like.
Compassion is also used synonymous with skillful means. But we are not skillful until developing wisdom and freedom from desire etc.
Clinging to sense pleasure
Clinging to wrong views
Clinging to rites and rituals (superstition)
Clinging to doctrine of Self
When you detest a person this is includes all four except superstition.
First of all you are clinging to sense pleasure because you are displaying aversion to the third parties impact upon the senses (they are doing something in your environment that you find sensually displeasing.)
You are clinging to wrong views because you cannot see that this aversion is Dukkha, that the cause of this Dukkha is your craving for change (becoming,) that the end of this Dukkha is the end of this craving for change, and that the path leading to the end of this Dukkha is the 8-fold path.
You are clinging to doctrine of self because you are reifying the existence of a person seperate from your Self, when really this "seperate" identity is a construct of the mind and inseperable and codependent upon the presence of that very mind.
This clinging gives rise to the state of becoming, becoming gives rise to birth, birth gives rise to old age and death.
Its said that following 8 fold path is way to end all suffering.and once enlightened you are free from suffering.
Yet buddhism tells us to practice compassion. and Compassion definition: To suffer with another. Or Sympathetic feelings towards another.
But if we wernt attached we wouldnt feel sympathy for someone else. and we certainly wouldnt suffer. Therefore why practice compassion because its only gonna keep making me suffer, because im feeling there pain, which is why i want to help them..so we still suffer some how.
It all contradicts each other.
Of course i still practice compassion as best i can but i think i also know when enough is enough. Ive read alot of books on dalai lama and he non stops talks about practising compassion to all beings is the secret to our happiness, even towards bad people etc etc etc...(what bullsh1t!!!!) practising compassion wont bring us happiness AT ALL.
Yes of course doing a good deed every now and again makes me realize how nice i am and theres still some decent guys aroud here and that makes me smile for about 2 seconds but im talking about helping an old lady, or standing up on the bus.. But the way dalai lama goes on..bloody hell, he wants us to forgive and bow down to murderers etc etc..(honestly, i am not making this stuff up, ive got tapes,cds, with his interviews)
I dont agree with what he teaches AT ALL...its not real buddhism.
Anyway sorry for going on so much.
Back to the question: Yes i think trying to be compassionate to someone you detest is an attachment and also not very healthy..And you could get sh1t on behind your back. Only when YOU are ready to feel compassion is then the right time. But do not feel bad if you dont feel compassion for a certain person. Nothing wrong with it. Do what you can, and let go of the rest!!
Its this kind of thing that i do and im proud of.
But im not attached to any of them therefore i dont feel compassion when they tell me their stories.
But when a gang battered my friend and we found out who it was, i was never ever gonna feel compassion for those guys. I dont care what they have been through in the past. NOTHING is an excuse for doing a bad thing, i say..(just my opinion anyway. Cheers. x god bless x
If we try to be compassionate to the other while afflicted with aversion for them, it is like trying to jump past the truth to get to the ideal. This is common for folks who have "goodness" and "spirituality" in their identity. If we drop the identity and work with the aversion directly, we get to the ideal and aversion won't arise.
The secret is letting go of hatred yes.Only until we let go can we finally stop our mental suffering. But as for feeling compassion for these people. haha, NEVER..
You dont have to feel compassion for them to stop suffering. You just have to let go of anger, hatred. and then finally you can move on. Compassion has nothing to do with hapiness like Lama says. x (just my opinion anyway)
Your understanding of compassion is incorrect.
"Sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others."
People do "bad" or unskillful things to themselves and others because they are in a state of suffering, confusion, anxiety, lamentation, despair, unhappiness, hunger, disatifaction, loneliness, etc. Through knowledge of the Dharma, we can help them to understand the source of their suffering and thus achieve liberation from its cause.
There are two types of compassion. There is the compassion that arises naturally with the devlopment of wisdom, and there is the compassion for others that is cultivated in order to acheive wisdom.
Wisdom -> compassion
Compassion -> wisdom
This second form is the kind of compassion that you are refusing because it seems that you believe that compassion for others does not lead to understanding. Consider this, however; if you put an effort forward to understand and share with others their suffering, it will help you to understand your own state of suffering as well. By understanding the truth of suffering, you understand the first noble truth expounded by the Exalted Buddha.
When you say that compassion necessitates a form of suffering, you are incorrect. The Buddha no longer cultivates compassion for others in order to generate wisdom. He has perfect wisdom, and through his perfect wisdom and understanding of the nature of suffering, his compassion arises naturally as the first form described.
Cultivating compassion for all living creatures is necessary because it helps to cultivate the perfection of wisdom.
Not to say that this compassion is easy to cultivate. It is difficult to care for someone you hate. But once you realize that this hate is a source of suffering for yourself and others, and have done away with it, that person you once hated will be just another suffering creature in need of love, patience, generosity, guidance, and understanding.
Do you have a link or quote where he conveys that understanding of compassion?
Here is his most famous quote: ''If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion' ~Dalai Lama~
Can you explain this quote first then. Because all it says is practice compassion. the quote doesnt state what he means by compassion. But in the interview he does talk about it. so i will find it.
I think that the quote you just offerred makes perfect sense. "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." In the same way I spoke of before, practicing compassion for others leads to understanding and liberation. Making others happy, is benefit to them and yourself. This is good advice.
I have witnessed and experienced terrible personal things in life, which envolve others, and i believe there is no excuse for *some* things..Therefore i just cannot feel compassion for certain people. (if anything, i feel compassion for the ones others hurt and dont deserve it..)
Anyway like i said, I dont think practising compassion is a good or bad. I think there are more important practices like 'letting go' so i guess a better quote for people like myself would be..''if you want others to be happy, let them go, if you want to be happy, let things go'
The thing that is important to remember is that for every action, good or evil, the doer will be heir to is fruition. This is the law of karma. From great evils will arise great suffering and woe.
The compassion you feel for the evil-doer is understanding that the suffering they are causing for others will return to them, and the reason they do evil acts is out of ignorance. They don't understand that their evil acts will not help them escape their own suffering. Their evil acts are what put them in the state of suffering to begin with.
With a heart of boundless compassion, the noble ones reach out to all living creatures in order to guide them toward the path of virtue, the path that leads to liberation from suffering, the path expounded by the Exalted Buddha.
Most of us do need to actively cultivate compassion, but we can make it a lot easier.
Compassion naturally arises when the conditions preventing it are removed. (Dependent Origination)
So what are the conditions that are preventing it?
Self delusion manifesting as greed, fear, hatred. See these for what they are - attachment to self. Compassion toward yourself and others will follow.
Best Wishes
so to be compassionate to someone, the very least is I do not harbour ill-will against that person and I do not wish to harm the person in any way. Right, then I am on the right track.
Anyway - I'm fine now!! Because the secret is 'letting go' and I have let go. I don't mentally suffer anymore so I don't need to feel compassion for them. Obvoiusly when it gets brought up ill still have opinions and say I still don't feel compassion, but I don't think of it anymore! X
Compassion is wishing everyone could stop suffering. Everyone, no matter what they've done to you or others. What use is compassion only for the deserving? That's not true compassion. What I'm saying is Dharma. You can reject it if you'd like, but letting go is the price you eventually have to pay, if you want to walk the path of Buddha.
But do not believe this coz its not ALWAYS the case. Some people are just NATUALLY SCUM.
END OF. xx
Whereas conventional compassion offers salvation, ultimate compassion offers only liberation. How are we liberated? By coming to realize that ultimately there is no good and bad, merely undeluded and deluded, sane and insane, unafflicated and afflicted. We realize that we can forgive not because we have to grit our teeth and bear it but because hidden very deep within all beings there is an undeluded, sane, unafflicted nature which mirrors our own.
Not easy.
Samsara is a hole they keep digging themselves into. That is why it is easy to cultivate a lot of good karma in this life. But it is also very easy to cultivate a lot of bad karma. Their is great potential for both extremes.
Consider abandoning your aversion to your enemy... then you will actually let go. Until then, you're just mouthing the words unconvincingly.
Compassion has nothing to do with letting go..in fact if I felt compassion for these people I wouldn't be letting go!!
I can talk about it now but the mental images do not come into my mind anymore so I don't mentally suffer.
I dont have to feel compassion to be happy..
I'm very happy and I have no compassion what so ever for the people who I'm talking about.
Why is so hard to understand where I'm coming from..
I have LET GO of what they did, and I've let go of any anger so finally I am happy.(Took awhile) but I'm there only because I've been able to let go....I don't have to feel compassion to be happy.
Good luck to all x
It is the clinging to self that corrupts a mind to a point that it could be "happy to see them rot in hell". So, its true that you might feel happy, but its conditional and will fade. What is not true is when you say "I'm fine now!" A feeling in us that wishes harm on others is not fine, is not healthy, and is part of the problem.
Compassion is a result of letting go of self-cherishing, which is why I have high hopes for you!
Your feelings are not wrong, just look what makes sense for you now and keep an open mind.
I don't wish anything....I actually said that I would be happy to see them rot in hell, just as I would still be happy if they won the lottery becasue I have LET GO from all emotions that were stuck with what happened..
Again, I don't have to feel compassion. I just feel nothing...
I feel nothing because I've been able to let go of it all..
When u say 'it won't last....' well its been nearly 10 years now! And I'm doing pretty well. So I'm confident in myself that I'm not gonna start mentally suffering..x
One needs to cultivated all three:
wisdom
meditation
morality
Compassion fits with all three.
Feeling nothing means you have a big problem. That is not the Dharma. There is no school of Buddhism that teaches numbness as a path to enlightenment, including Zen. Please don't try to tell people that you're practicing Buddhism when you don't give a damn about people. We know better.
I'm puzzled:
How could you have "let go" and not found compassion for these "bad people". It seems to me that if you have honestly let go, then you would easily find compassion for them. I can also tell by reading your posts that you have done the very opposite of letting go. You are clinging onto this whole scenario for dear life. If you had actually let go, then would you have even posted a comment on this forum?
Some advice:
I certainly wouldn't call Buddhist compassion "bullshit", especially in a Buddhist forum. This is unskillful. Fortunately we here are compassionate towards your views and we openly accept even the foulest tongued critics.
One last thing here:
If in your practice you haven't discovered any truths in the idea of compassion for every living being,then you may be better off practicing a different religion. There can be many paths that lead to the same place. Find one that suits you best.
Metta,
Mr. Fell
And again, I haven't claimed 'I don't care whether people are living in torture..' As I *have* lived in torture..
I said I have compassion for people who get hurt!! So where have u got 'I don't feel compassion for others living in torture' pls start reading properly and stop making things up and assuming things..
I have stated only that: 1.I only have compassion for people who get hurt. But 2. There is no good enough reason to hurt another. Even if uv been hurt yourself. (I've been in tortue and I don't harm anyone)
As for buddhism...I'm so so!!!
Things I like, things I don't!
I agree with 8fold path and practice it best I can..
As for all this rebirth cylce crap: well I'm not sure so I don't worry about it.
And I also don't buy all this, 'there's only one buddha at any one time...etc etc...what crap! (For me anyway)
I'm a good guy, I accept things,I let go and move on.
I meditate regulary. And I jog every morning after meditation.
I'm healthy, well, kind and help out at charities and homless shelters.
If anyone wants it spelled out: then what I'm saying is 'I don't have compassion for people who gang up and torture one person. Burning them and laughing whilst taking pictures showing it around.
Laughin at one crying (and trust me a lot a lot more)
So what I'm saying is: I ONLY HAVE COMPASSION FOR THE ONE WHO IS GETTING TORTURED,
I DO ((NOT)) HAVE COMPASSION FOR THE 7 PEOPLE WHO TORTURED THIS ONE PERSON...
HOWEVER: I have finally managed to let go!! Therefore I'm happy.
Being happy as nothing to do with compassion.
I don't care what anyone or any buddhist hear-say books say or what zen masters say becasue its what *I* say to myself.
Books and text books can help but eventually you'll have your own "ahhhh moment" when whatever works for u - works for u..
Good luck x
(Sorry for any mis-typing) I'm on my mobile! X
"Buddhas and disciples are not enlightened by a set method of teachings, but by an internally intuitive process which is spontaneous and is part of their own inner nature."
Diamond Sutra
"People create their own suffering, after all. So it's not my problem and nothing I can do to help, anyway." It's actually been said on the boards before, you're just a little more honest and open about it than most.
It's hard to see what you need to work on any direction in your life if you happen to be doing all right. You jog, so you're healthy. Probably don't have to worry about a warm bed and enough to eat. No relationships blowing up on you. Enjoy. I'm happy for you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying the blessings that come your way.
But a religion is all about bringing people together. Buddhism is not an exclusive religion, so it just isn't people who take refuge that are part of our family; it's everyone out there. Buddhism as a religion seeks to address the suffering of the world, not how happy you are.
We have people here who practice Buddhism as philosophy, Buddhism as self-improvement, and Buddhism as religion. It's an intertaining and enlightening mix.