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A plague of ants...

almer45almer45
edited July 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Dear friends,

I would like to know what you think about this subject. It is advisable not to kill any kind of insects. But what happens if you have thousands of ants( even with wings) on one of the walls of your house or your shop? This happened to me in my shop a few days ago. I told my wife that it was advisable not to kill insects. She told me that we couldn't leave our shop that way. She used a spray for insects to kill them. Then I thought...if you killed them is bad, but it is also a bad idea to leave them where they are. You can't convey them to another place. What happens for example if your house is teamed with rats? Should we leave them?

(In my case I don't do anything but I leave others do thing because I Think that situation is difficult...Then I feel a bit guilty)

Your friend

Almer45

Comments

  • YishaiYishai Veteran
    edited July 2011
    Have compassion, try to find away to solve the situation. Killing should be a last resort. Sometimes, we can't help it. It's hard to defend your home when we aren't supposed to kill, eh? That's one reason why living elegantly is difficult. If you lived in a mud hut, the ants wouldn't stay (most likely) :P

    Is there nothing that repels ants? Try to lay down some insect repellant so this doesn't happen again. :)
  • tmottestmottes Veteran
    Lots of ants going on around on our forum... may I direct your attention to another thread.

    Ants in the car
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    I can understand killing them. This is samsara and we are enmeshed in karma. Even though we try to live well we still have no choice but to create negative karma that can send us to hell. For this reason you should 1) regret the killing 2) resolve to prevent future ant infestations 3) make retributions by creating positive karma: meditate on the emptiness of form, feeling, perception, formation, and consciousness; make prayers or offerings and resolve to work to become a buddha until all beings are free from samsara (or your words); read scripture. 4) Rely on the triple gem to guide you and give you support.
  • almer45almer45
    Thank you very much for your replies. I told my wife not to do it. I really like your nice piece of advice. The idea of an insect repellant is nice.
  • JeffreyJeffrey Veteran
    edited July 2011
    I would kill the ants actually but thats just me. Like I say we are trapped in samsara. I can't comprehend why I do that, but I just would. But I wouldn't kill a single ant I would escort it out of the house. Too many ants and I can't have that. I have to fit into a society that doesn't accept ant infestations.

    I would own the karma for my act and do 1-4. And I would not be devided I would just do it. And accept the karma + practice to let go of divided emotions.
  • almer45almer45
    I think that you are right in what you say Jeffrey. There are sometimes in which situations are difficult and you have no choice. If there is a lion in the forest and it is going to eat you and you have a gun it is completely O.K to defend your life. My Kriya Master thought like you and me about the matter. Another thing is not to feel very well after having killed the lion or the ants.
  • ThaoThao Veteran
    I know a woman who I saw kill an insect and said, "Go to your next life." It was funny at the time, but I try to save most insects. It sounds like the ants came up on the wall due to too much water in the ground? Sometimes it is impossible to save the ants. I like Jeffrey's comments. I let my husband do if it he is unhappy. In the house I found if you keep the cabinet tops clean they won't come in unless they are drowning outside.

    I will kill poisonous critters in order to protect myself, others, and my animals.
  • auraaura Veteran
    You have carpenter ants. They can destroy the wall. They can also destroy your house.
    Suck them up with a vacuum cleaner and get rid of your wet wood/moisture problem.
    They came to the house because somewhere there was damp wood. They don't eat it, but they nest in it. You are not randomly attacking fellow creatures here, but protecting your house from that which is destroying it.
    Read up on "carpenter ants." They live in trees. They came for the wet wood.
  • Kwantum_KevKwantum_Kev
    Seems like I remember reading a story about a monastery in New York that was plagued by rats. The monks there did not want to kill them of course. But things got so bad that it started threatening their health and the safety of those that visited. They finally decided they needed to do something, and ended up calling in someone to help them get rid of the rats. I can't remember the whole story now, so I will return to this post and add more details after I consult the source.

    My typical M/O in situations like this is to first say a little prayer, asking the ants/bugs/rats to leave, letting them know that I don't want to harm them, but I need them to go for my own safety and serenity. After such time has passed that I deem is appropriate for them to have gotten the message, I then take the necessary actions, asking their forgiveness, and feeling true compassion for them.

    I look at it like the analogy of people being eaten/attacked by bears, sharks, lions, or even killed by the bite of venomous snakes. Sometimes, it is we who are the pests and end up paying with our lives.

    In situations like that, I also reaffirm my true belief that if my life were to be taken, in a similar manner as theirs, I would be willing to give it, and without ill feeling. In that way, I hope to bond with them on some level, knowing that in some other life, in some other time, it may be me who is asked to make the sacrifice - and I will, knowing that I have asked the same of others, no matter how small or insignificant.

    Namaste'

    Kwan Kev
  • almer45almer45
    Thank you Thao and aura,
    It is not my house but my shop.We have our house close to the shop (our shop is downstairs)The problem is that we live close to a river. This is why there are a lot of insects in the area. Fortunaly the walls of the shop are not made of wood but of concrete. Perhaps it is a karma because although I try to respect insects I don't like them very much. I get a bit scared and nervous when I have them close to me (specially wasps).
  • almer45almer45
    Thank you Kwan Kev as well. Interesting story! See if you can tell us how it ends.
  • robotrobot Veteran
    They may or may not be carpenter ants and they may simply be passing through. Some ants will be using your place as a jumping off point on their way to start a colony elsewhere. Follow them back to the point of entry to decide if they have a colony there or not. If they are living there, killing them is likely the only cure. If not killing them will not help, just make a mess. You could wait them out. Thats what I did and they simply moved on. I only had dozens not hundreds or thousands.
  • MamaLotusMamaLotus
    My typical M/O in situations like this is to first say a little prayer, asking the ants/bugs/rats to leave, letting them know that I don't want to harm them, but I need them to go for my own safety and serenity. After such time has passed that I deem is appropriate for them to have gotten the message, I then take the necessary actions, asking their forgiveness, and feeling true compassion for them.

    wow, Kwantum, that is an interesting view! Did it ever work? I mean, did you ever notice any rat or critter leave after getting the message? Anyway, I think your idea is great in the way that saying this little prayer allows your mind to calm down and not to react too fast to an unpleasant situation.
  • MountainsMountains Veteran
    Often if you simply leave insects like those alone, they'll go away. If there are winged ants, it sounds like they may be swarming to form a new colony somewhere. I know they're bothersome - I've been infested with Asian ladybugs for years, and now with brown Asian stinkbugs, but give them a bit of time and see if they go away. Ants like you describe aren't typical house pests (ie, they don't live in your house in that form), so I'm guessing they're just passing through.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    You have carpenter ants. They can destroy the wall. They can also destroy your house.
    Suck them up with a vacuum cleaner and get rid of your wet wood/moisture problem.
    They came to the house because somewhere there was damp wood. They don't eat it, but they nest in it. You are not randomly attacking fellow creatures here, but protecting your house from that which is destroying it.
    Read up on "carpenter ants." They live in trees. They came for the wet wood.
    Sounds nice, but may be impractical. When I had termites they were in places no one could reach with any type of vacuum without digging big time around the entire front foundation of the house, which would have cost thousands of dollars. Plus, vacuuming them wouldn't get rid of the eggs.

  • sukhitasukhita
    Anyone tried lighting incense sticks (plenty of them) and leaving an escape route like an open door or window for the insects to leave the building? Most insects don't seem to tolerate the incense.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited July 2011
    @almer45

    in buddhism, non-killing is a training rule rather than an absolute

    the buddha taught kamma is intention

    so how killing affects our mind (afterwards) is related to our intention

    when the buddha described 'killing' in the scriptures, he described it as killing with hatred & violence, as bloody handed and without mercy

    but, in your case, your intention is not to murder or trespass with hatred & violence

    rather, your intention is to 'clean' your shop and make it presentable for business

    it is not like you break into a person's home to murder them & steal their possessions

    to the contrary, the insects have attacked your home/business

    thus the insects suffer from their karma rather than from yours

    it is similar to killing due to self-defense. this is not bad karma

    the results of kamma (action) are known in the heart (rather than in the head)

    kind regards

    DD :)

  • Kwantum_KevKwantum_Kev
    MamaLotus,

    I am glad that you like my approach to those situations. In all honesty, I can't say how often it has worked and not worked. I know there are times when I have had to take action, but those times have been the exception rather than the rule. And I'm not sure if that is because my request was answered, situations changed, or perhaps something else happened.

    I do not that it has the benefit of making me feel closer to all living things, and to feel less badly about things when I do have to take action.

    I am happy that someone appreciated it : )


    Namaste'

    Kwan Kev
  • robotrobot Veteran
    DD,, thanks. This is as close as anyone has come yet to explaining this type of killing in a way that makes sense. I kill fish for a living and do it without malice. Everything that can be released alive is put back. The fish we target are mainly hatchery bred and have no home to return to that can support their numbers. We love them for their beauty and the part they play in our lives since we are dependent on them. Most fishermen are not suffering from negative effects of killing fish. Unless of course their greed overcomes their common sense and they are killed doing something stupid. As you have said, guilt is present after killing a creature for any reason, or ones serenity is disturbed by it, the consequences to ones practice will be apparent.
  • almer45almer45
    I think you are right. When it a self-defense matter then there is no intention to cause any harm to any animal or small being. I wanted to wait for some time, even to pray for a solution, but my wife who is not a very spiritual person (she is Catholic)decided in one minute what she had in mind.

    But there are also good stories on our side.There are many cats near my area. One day a female cat came to us an try to enter in our house. She didn't have a room to stay. Every day when we returned we were accompanied by the cat. One day we decided to set her in a small room behind the shop we have (the shop and my house are in the same building). She has been with us for four years, now. She watches our shop and try to be kind to everybody who enters our shop except dogs. Recently another cat, a white female cat with different eyes, has come to the area. We can't have another cat but we are feeding her.

    Thank you very much for your nice answers.
  • saraspotsaraspot
    Hello Friends, and thank you for granting me membership here.

    I, too, have tiny sugar ants swarming my desk at work. I have escorted as many as I can off of my desk but of course they return in search of food. They find their way from the floor upwards via my bare legs, which is quite disconcerting! Today I snubbed out one of the unfortunate creatures.

    A few years ago I came across a Buddhist prayer which one recites after inadvertently killing an insect, or coming across a creature that has been hit in the road, or a bird that has flown into your window. I've since found the Prayer for the Dying, but this is different. It was not in English. It spoke of peace for the "victim" and offered direction to the next life. Does anyone here know this prayer?

    Thank you for your help!
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