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The bhumis seem nearly unattainable

TalismanTalisman Veteran
edited August 2011 in Philosophy
The 4 stages of enlightenment for the sravaka path are well-expounded in the Buddha's doctrine, the signs and elements of each stage carefully explained. Even more so, although very difficult to attain, they seem realistic in terms of human effort and possibility for perfecting oneself.

The bhumis, on the other hand, seem monumental in comparison. The first stage alone, according to the wikipedia document, states that "They also eliminate predispositions toward corrupted ethics so completely that they will not arise again."

Whereas the terms for stream entry consist of abandonment of self-view, doubt, and ritual attachment. Stream-entrants are still subject to sensual desire, ill will, rebirth-lust, consceit, restlessness, and ignorance. (same for the once-returner.)

How is a person supposed to aspire to such lofty expectations without withering under the weight of the enormous odds of failure? I understand and have faith that this kind of perfection would be necessary to achieve the level of attainment of the Buddha as described in the canonical literature, but how does one even begin this kind journey?

Is it Boddhicitta that awakens the faith and endurance necessary for walking the path of perfection and self-liberation? For whom should I seek liberation? To what end? This world, that is, the world of things, is so sad. It's so SAD. How can I bring happiness to this world?

How can I bring the unconditioned to the conditioned, the deathless to the dying, shelter and refuge to the lost, liberation to the imprisoned, illumination to the dark, oneness to the many, peace to the restless, faith to the doubtful, happiness to the sad, to the lonely, to the lamenting, to the sick and hungry and angry and despairing masses of the world?

Did the Buddha ever arise in this world, or is such a notion an oxymoron? Where is the tathagata? Where is the Buddha?!

Comments

  • There is a Buddha currently in Nepal, yes that is his name :)
    His duty is to stay with Dharma Sangha sometimes in Halkoriya. He has been meditating for the past 6 years for world peace. He had made many speeches in this time against animal sacrifice, ingorance, greed, materialism, lust, anger etc nothing new as any buddhist knows. Except there is a diffence between this Guru and other in recent times. This Guru has been contacted and has even given teachings to beings in other realms. The buddhas give him advice and blessing reagularly. Maitreya Nath, his guru, has spoken of the coming destruction and given Guruji advice on uniting all religions & sanghas (families/comunities of the world) under divine law. The result will be heaven on earth, the alternative is destruction.. for "a terrible storm has descended on the human world".

  • Just to clarify, "He has been meditating for the past 6 years" meaning Dharma Sangha (AKA palden dorje) not Buddha (a young monk who goes by that name ;)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2011
    Stream-entrants are still subject to sensual desire, ill will, rebirth-lust, conceit, restlessness, and ignorance. (same for the once-returner.)
    This viewpoint is just intellectual; just from reading & misconstruing books.

    The internet is replete with "Buddhists" attempting to convince themselves they are stream enterers due to their book learning.

    First, the 6th & 7th fetters are not related to rebirth lust. They are related to lust for jhana. The stream enterer has done away with superstitions about rebirth when cutting the first three fetters. Rebirth lust is the domain of the puthujjana.

    As for the seven remaining fetters in the stream enterer, this are just "possibilities" rather than pervasive characteristic behaviour.

    The stream enterer does not have strong tendencies to induldge in sensual desire, yet sensual desire may still arise in their mind on occassions when the sense object is too strong in relation to their developed wisdom.

    The Buddha declared a stream enterer is a holy being. The Buddha said the suffering of stream enterer is comparable to a fingertip of soil in relation to the whole earth.

    :)
  • TalismanTalisman Veteran
    edited August 2011
    ^^^
    Sometimes it's hard to tell if you are trying to put me down or not, but I do appreciate the input. :)
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2011
    The bhumis, on the other hand, seem monumental in comparison. The first stage alone, according to the wikipedia document, states that "They also eliminate predispositions toward corrupted ethics so completely that they will not arise again."
    The stream enterer does not have "corrupted ethics". The Buddha taught a stream enterer has excellent ethics.
    How is a person supposed to aspire to such lofty expectations without withering under the weight of the enormous odds of failure? I understand and have faith that this kind of perfection would be necessary to achieve the level of attainment of the Buddha as described in the canonical literature, but how does one even begin this kind journey?
    The stream enterer has mastered 'letting go'. The stream enterer has mastered abandoning the judgments of 'good' and 'evil'. The stream enterer has ended 'sīlabbata-parāmāso', which means 'wrongly grasping morality (sila) and customs (bbata).

    However, your obsessions with "perfection" & "failure" are indicative of abundant 'sīlabbata-parāmāso'. For the mind free from sakkāya-diṭṭhi (self-belief), how can it be concerned or suffer about 'success' & 'failure'?
    Is it Boddhicitta that awakens the faith and endurance necessary for walking the path of perfection and self-liberation? For whom should I seek liberation? To what end? This world, that is, the world of things, is so sad. It's so SAD. How can I bring happiness to this world? "
    What is truely sad is our own personal suffering. How can we expect to end the suffering of the world if we cannot even end our own suffering?

    "Bodhicitta" is often delusion. It is often lust. We personally suffer due to our various lusts and then, instead of focusing on our own suffering, we still lust for others by lusting to somehow to embrace others & end their suffering. This is similar to when we believe having sexual intercourse with another will end their and our suffering.

    Recently, there was a Tibetan lama in Australia who was revealed to be practising sexual misconduct with his students. He tried to defend himself using Bodhicitta, by saying: "What was I supposed to do? These women were throwing themselves at me!"

    This shows the often misunderstanding of "Bodhicitta".
    How can I bring the unconditioned to the conditioned, the deathless to the dying, shelter and refuge to the lost, liberation to the imprisoned, illumination to the dark, oneness to the many, peace to the restless, faith to the doubtful, happiness to the sad, to the lonely, to the lamenting, to the sick and hungry and angry and despairing masses of the world?
    You can't. The Buddha said: "One stuck in the mud cannot pull another out of the mud. That is impossible." Jesus said: "When the blind lead the blind, they both fall into a ditch".

    If we cannot sort out our own mind and our own relationships then how can we save the entire world? Even Buddha & Jesus could not save the entire world.
    Did the Buddha ever arise in this world, or is such a notion an oxymoron? Where is the tathagata? Where is the Buddha?!
    Buddha is an enlightened being that has practised the path, starting from morality (sila). A Buddha understands: "What is what". Buddha never said the path was easy. However, the Buddha also never said the path does not work.

    Kind regards

    DD :)

  • Hi Talisman I answered as many questions as I could. Please tell me what you think & if they answered any of your questions.
  • @cosmicyogisattva

    I don't mean to be rude, but I don't believe this person you mentioned is a Buddha. Call it intuition.
  • DhammaDhatuDhammaDhatu Veteran
    edited August 2011
    Sometimes it's hard to tell if you are trying to put me down or not, but I do appreciate the input. :)
    That's because you can't tell the difference between "yourself" and the views in your mind.

    I am not putting "you" down. But I am challenging the views in your mind.

    With metta :)

  • There is a Buddha currently in Nepal, yes that is his name :)
    His duty is to stay with Dharma Sangha sometimes in Halkoriya. He has been meditating for the past 6 years for world peace. He had made many speeches in this time against animal sacrifice, ingorance, greed, materialism, lust, anger etc nothing new as any buddhist knows. Except there is a diffence between this Guru and other in recent times. This Guru has been contacted and has even given teachings to beings in other realms. The buddhas give him advice and blessing reagularly. Maitreya Nath, his guru, has spoken of the coming destruction and given Guruji advice on uniting all religions & sanghas (families/comunities of the world) under divine law. The result will be heaven on earth, the alternative is destruction.. for "a terrible storm has descended on the human world".

    That's really great news. Why haven't we heard about this before?
  • @cosmicyogisattva

    I don't mean to be rude, but I don't believe this person you mentioned is a Buddha. Call it intuition.
    At least I don't think i was meant to be rude...

    call it intuition or memory.. I'm sure i know a "Talisman" from another forum...
    not that it matters, it's just a name, as with a real Nepalese monk named Buddha, believe it or not. I will provide photographic evidence if you ask kindly enough :P. Im sorry I cannot say the same for the bodhisattva i met. Anyway, Buddha is real & yes, they stay with Dharma Sangha in Nepal sometimes.

    What do you think of Dharma Sangha? (also a true name)

    @SherabDorje Im sure i have made a thread on this before... but i dont think there were many replied & most who did reply were sceptical... if you want to know more visit etapasvi.com there are discussion groups on google you can join too for email updates. many interesting developments happening around this sage right now. Many have not heard of him yet, but gradually the word is spreading...

    "Om namo guru buddha gyani"

    "May all beings be happy" -dharma sangha
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