The Buddha's teachings

ClayTheScribe

How do we know that the Buddha's teachings are pure? In that he lived some 2,500 years ago, so his teachings would be subject to a lot of translations and passing on down the line. How do we know what we read today of his teachings were really what he said? It's not too important to me in my spiritual growth since Buddhism teaches you to put faith in what you experience to be true, but people quote The Buddha around here a lot, like Christians quote Jesus, so I just wonder how much is what he really taught and how much is added upon over the years?

jll

The simple answer is we dont know.
You said' It's not too important to me in my spiritual growth since Buddhism teaches you to put faith in what you experience to be true'
How do you know that to be true?

ClayTheScribe

That's just what I've learned so far about Buddhism. That you should rely on your own experience through being mindful and meditating. Is that not true or is there more to it?

DhammaDhatu

The simple answer is we know via realisation. The Buddha's teachings are pure because they work. The Buddha's teachings are described as follows:

[Yo so svākkhāto] bhagavatā dhammo,

The Dhamma well-expounded by the Blessed One,

Sandiṭṭhiko akāliko ehipassiko,

to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting all to come & see,

Opanayiko paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhi:

leading inward, to be seen by the wise for themselves:

Tam-ahaṃ dhammaṃ abhipūjayāmi,
Tam-ahaṃ dhammaṃ sirasā namāmi.

I honor most highly that Dhamma,
To that Dhamma I bow my head down.

(BOW DOWN) :bowdown:

ClayTheScribe

The simple answer is we know via realisation. The Buddha's teachings are pure because they work. The Buddha's teachings are described as follows:

[Yo so svākkhāto] bhagavatā dhammo,

The Dhamma well-expounded by the Blessed One,

Sandiṭṭhiko akāliko ehipassiko,

to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting all to come & see,

Opanayiko paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhi:

leading inward, to be seen by the wise for themselves:

Tam-ahaṃ dhammaṃ abhipūjayāmi,
Tam-ahaṃ dhammaṃ sirasā namāmi.

I honor most highly that Dhamma,
To that Dhamma I bow my head down.

(BOW DOWN) :bowdown:

Thanks. That was basically the answer I was looking for. Do you know any places where I could find the Buddha's teachings straight up? A few years ago I read a book called What The Buddha Taught and that was immensely helpful and easy to read.

DhammaDhatu

The simple answer is we dont know.
You said' It's not too important to me in my spiritual growth since Buddhism teaches you to put faith in what you experience to be true'
How do you know that to be true?

You sure changed your tune since yesterday :-/

The simple answer is Buddha taught the truth.
If as DD believes, Buddha did not teach reincarnation,
then there is no problem.
So, the problem arise if Buddha did teach reincarnation.
Then, either reincarnation is true or the Buddha is wrong.

DhammaDhatu

Do you know any places where I could find the Buddha's teachings straight up? A few years ago I read a book called What The Buddha Taught and that was immensely helpful and easy to read.

The Buddha teachings are found in the suttas. The Buddha's first three sermons can be read here:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/wheel017.html#s1

The Buddha also offered comprehensive teachings for laypeople, such as here:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.062.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an04/an04.055.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.31.0.nara.html

goshiki

There is no such thing as "teaching" in Buddha , no one can "teach" buddha to others including any "Ven" , any "master" or even Mr Siddharta . Buddha from Mr Siddharta finding is "AWARENESS" after being "AWAKE" . No one can "teach" awareness but ofcause many teacher can teach knowledge . Any monk that claim to be "teacher" in Buddhism infact is WRONG perhap they have more "knowledge" on text / scripture or in short the "history book" . I like what I WANT to believe Mr Siddharta said and whether he said it or not is never important to me . I quote " Believe nothing no matter where you read or who have said it or EVEN IF I HAD SAID it unless it agrees with your own common sense & reasons".
Buddhism is ALL ABOUT learning to know our awareness / our pollutant , "teacher" or "teaching" never in any part of searching purity .

goshiki

Nothing no text , scripture , books , talks by any monks , tradition , materials , any actions etc COULD BE ASSOCIATED to Buddha . Is all about self awareness and being awake .
All living or non-living is source of Buddha therefore there are countless source by countless way knowing buddha . Knowing Buddha is fun , easy , exciting and happy . If hard , boring , tiring , brain storming , have to remember difficult words , have to "act" or follow any action then IT MUST BE WRONG .

DhammaDhatu

There is no such thing as "teaching" in Buddha

you sound completely obsessed by some fundamentalist superstition

esoteric philosophy can also become a superstition or blind faith, something preached but never realised

your two posts are attempts to "teach", therefore, following your rationale, IT MUST BE WRONG :eek2:

DhammaDhatu

I quote " Believe nothing no matter where you read or who have said it or EVEN IF I HAD SAID it unless it agrees with your own common sense & reasons"

Buddha did not speak the words above

But if he did, you would be again contradicting your rationale by asserting them :wow:

DhammaDhatu

Knowing Buddha...

Your mind does not know 'Buddha'... :-/

goshiki

I am here solely to learn...never in any possible way to teach as I am fully understand in Buddha "teaching" never existed . As I can even learn Buddha from my own shit ....even a piece of dirt is same & equal with me . Sorry if I make you all feel I am "teaching" here.....NO I never . Infact I did learn alot here .

DhammaDhatu

OK...no need to take it all so personally...

however, when the Buddha instructed to abandon attachment & craving, trust me, these words are more beneficial than looking, smelling, tasting, touching or thinking about our own shit

goshiki

Dear Dhamma Dhatu ,
As I have said whether he said it or not is never important to me even if there was never have Mr Siddharta the prince who introduced this energy also not important to me but the most important thing to me is I know I must learn......
Yes indeed I does not know Buddha.....perhaps I need another trillions purification process of birth / death ...right now I am still full of rubbish ..that is something I know ....I fully understand I am still full of pollutant as I still protect my family , my daughter and my life . If one day I can love the cancer virus that attack my body same & equal love to my daughter then I can believe I am less rubbish , closer to purity .

Sir , thanks alot for reminding me....I am fully agrees with you .

DhammaDhatu

dear friend

the Buddha taught purity of mind is to be free from craving & attachment

the mind can be pure but the body can never be pure

the body of each of us, including Buddha, is affected by disease & sickness

to help the old, sick & dying, the Buddha taught here & here:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.001.than.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.143.than.html

with metta

goshiki

In Buddha , we are all free to do whatever we want as long as we aware of our action . In my awareness , Buddha is all about learning to understand own awareness and NEVER in any possible way can be taught but thats my awareness now perhap I will have diiferent opinion after I learn here .
NO ONE is greater than others , no "teacher" in Buddhsim only "student".

DhammaDhatu

...Buddha is all about learning to understand own awareness and NEVER in any possible way can be taught...

true...mostly

study & practise are two different things

study is when we are taught

then practise is when we understand our own awareness

practise is the most important matter so what you said is the important matter

true...Buddha is all about learning to understand own awareness

good sir , thanks alot for reminding me....I am fully agrees with you

with metta

goshiki

I had learned from you Dhamma Dhatu , thanks . I did not "know" how to practise Buddhism but understanding own awareness / own pollutant will translated in my action / emotions so I never "practise" Buddhism , just try to know my self , change myself by not "BE" myself . I will not "static" by "being" myself or trying to be somebody or something , just trying to know my Buddha and my pollutant .

thickpaper

My opinion...

How do we know that the Buddha's teachings are pure?

We don't, but we do know that most of what remains of those teachings today can be shown via practice, insight and wisdom to be indubitable - very "pure".

>>>In that he lived some 2,500 years ago, so his teachings would be subject to a lot of translations and passing on down the line.

Yes. My advice, assume that it all could be "bogus", distorted or augmented and then ask yourself which of the teachings leads to the end of suffering, the increase in clarity, kindness and truth.

Buddhism is unique in that it doesn't rely on authenticity, it is self-verifying; in a way that other religions simply cannot be.


>>How do we know what we read today of his teachings were really what he said?

We don't. He might not even have existed. Maybe he said something completely different. Suppose he did, would the four noble truths still seem true? Would interdependence, interconnectivity and impermissible still seem foundational? Would the eightfold path still "work"?

I have tried to answer the above questions in the negative more than most buddhists I have encountered and am very sure that it cannot be done.

Always remember, the Buddha discovered, not invented, The Dharma.


namaste

santhisouk

How do we know that the Buddha's teachings are pure?

You can start by examining The Four Noble Truths and see if they are pure.

ClayTheScribe

Thank you. That is what I had initially thought in regards to Buddhism, but I didn't want to be ignorant and assume.