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Bookclub chapter 6
Jeffrey
Veteran
"Everyone has faith in something--that there's some vital happiness to be found in the world, that we can manage the day. It is vital: when people get seriously depressed, their loss of faith is what makes them suicidal. However, although it is so vital, you can't force faith to arise--it has to arise based on having faith in something. And it strengthens if that something is reliable. The most stable basis of faith is likened to a Threefold Refuge, also called the Triple Gem. It rests in the Buddha--the recognition that an Awakened ONe can arise from human roots and lay down a teaching in this world; it rests in the Dhamma--that there is an order, a balance, a truth that can be experienced by applying oneself ot the teachings; and it rests in the Sangha--the ongoing "community" of committed disciples. Developement occurs when we apply ourselves to experience this stable basis of faith.."
My question is what is meant by faith in 'something'. Are we to take something quite literally? I have been thinking a little bit about refuge. My teacher teaches that the buddha is ultimately the only refuge. The buddha being unconditional awareness that is always there clear open and sensitive. We don't know what the heck is going on and we just take a step back and notice that its not as bad as we think, kinda the non-self but right in your face when the world is closing in on you.
It can be related to the buddha in the teachings of mahayana by veritably that the mind has qualities of wisdom that are either developed or uncovered depending on way of thinking. This mind is the dharmakaya. But dharma teachings also are healthy fuel and certainly meditation.
So I would say that I feel aprehension in having faith in something unreliable and it is hard to find that faith to keep looking certainly. So maybe the zen people have it right in light of my ideas about the buddha nature that enlightenment is in the sitting with this mind.
Does this resonate or make sense? What are your thoughts?
My question is what is meant by faith in 'something'. Are we to take something quite literally? I have been thinking a little bit about refuge. My teacher teaches that the buddha is ultimately the only refuge. The buddha being unconditional awareness that is always there clear open and sensitive. We don't know what the heck is going on and we just take a step back and notice that its not as bad as we think, kinda the non-self but right in your face when the world is closing in on you.
It can be related to the buddha in the teachings of mahayana by veritably that the mind has qualities of wisdom that are either developed or uncovered depending on way of thinking. This mind is the dharmakaya. But dharma teachings also are healthy fuel and certainly meditation.
So I would say that I feel aprehension in having faith in something unreliable and it is hard to find that faith to keep looking certainly. So maybe the zen people have it right in light of my ideas about the buddha nature that enlightenment is in the sitting with this mind.
Does this resonate or make sense? What are your thoughts?
0
Comments
You kind of lost me a bit (not hard!) e.g. what is unreliable?
To dive in my experience of faith in the Dhamma is that it's progressive so I get what the author says by it can't be forced, it builds and is sustained based on direct experience "Developement occurs when we apply ourselves to experience this stable basis of faith.."
Initially you need faith to get you going, and that's gonna surely be based on some aspect small or large of the dhamma teachings resonating with your own experiences of life to date. So you get interested and start practicing, have a little experience, get more interested/commited, keep practicing, faith grows, and so on...
Faith is one of the 5 Spiritual Faculties - not enough of it and you become cynical, efforts to practice become half-hearted. Like any endeavour in life if you approach it half-heartedly the results are likely going to be poor or non existent. Too much faith and you probably stop being objective and start blindly following dogma without examining it. Faith has to be in balance with Wisdom, neither dominating. Too much Wisdom without any Faith and you become a dhamma smarty-pants but don't put much effort into real practice and direct experience
As a side note I don't have much experience with Zen (although getting more interested the longer I practice), but my general impression is their teachings/messages are abstract and deceptively simple, requiring a keen mind to unravel the real depths of ie I don't take them at face value. But my knowledge of that school is highly limited so I could be completely wrong!
I guess I don't know much about the evolution of faith but what I was saying about clarity (energy/concentration), openness, and sensitivity (wisdom/faith) would be something eternal though outside of time! Like you say it is our realization that ever gets glimpses and the path is to stabilize those and keep open.
"When people take refuge in the formal ceremony of becoming a Buddhist, they receive a name that indicates how they should work. I've noticed that when people get the name "Renunciation," they hate it. It makes them feel terrible; they feel as if someone gave them the name "Torture Chamber," or perhaps "Torture Chamber of Enlightenment." People usually don't like the name "Discipline" either, but so much depends on how you look at these things. Renunciation does not have to be regarded as negative. I was taught that it has to do with letting go of holding back. What one is renouncing is closing down and shutting off from life. You could say that renunciation is the same thing as opening to the teachings of the present moment."
~Pema Chodron
What if I told you I had a great house in the greatest place in the world where you would always be happy and this could all be yours for 100 dollars. Its a great offer but of course you wouldnt have the faith/hope/trust that it will actually actualize. Its not a great analogy but I think it illustrates the point. Now if I showed you 1,000 other people who took the offer and it actually happened, now you might have more faith to invest your money(time) with me.
and its exactly this kind of faith that drives millions of poor people to give money to the charlatan preachers who promise them rich rewards for giving them money.
and from a personal perspective I find my faith/hope that buddhism is the path for me weak, thus the consequence is that I read less and spend less time trying to understand it. So faith is indeed a positive aspect of practice, you have to believe you are walking down the right path to keep walking down the same path.