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Thoughts to anybody in London tonight
Weird_Artist
Explorer
Wishing peaceful thoughts to all those in London, and I hear the riots may be spreading 
0
Comments
These people need tough compassion.
'Tough' action often only inflames already emotional situations for families, many of them one-parent. There's nothing to do and nowhere to go for kids with working parents in school holiday time any more - and if they dont succeed educationally and find jobs (which are scarce because of the recession) then they feel like no-hope failures. What is needed is goverment action and funding to create educational schemes, activities, counselling etc for these kids and their families living on broken down estates with concrete and greyness all around them where people have lost hope and resort to crime to make a living.
I often used to stay behind at school giving extra help to disadvantaged kids with emotional and behavioral difficulties who'd got into trouble of one kind or another and also talking to their distressed mothers. (and shedding a private tear or two) I loved them all, bless them.
Please think of them with kindness and compassion even if they are violent.
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There really is not any excuse for this kind of behaviour, and again I hope those involved face the consequences of their barbaric and uncivilized behaviour. The worst thing of this is that they are destroying their own communities, it's the people who live in these communities that end up suffering, but I doubt these louts care about that.
I also agree that the prison system needs to change, punishment is not the answer, rehab is. Changing people's lives and offering them ways to become healthy members of society, giving them training and psychological support. But to prevent many going in to prison in the first place, training and psychological therapies should be widely available to everybody for a cheap/free as possible.
It's not a matter of excusing the destruction or blaming the police. There are reasons for everything people do. Given a large young population (young people riot, not old people) who are angry and frustrated and have nothing, and throw out the right spark, and there is a riot.
The rioters aren't all bad people, any more than the police are all good people. They're just people caught up in the human drama.
What message are the politicians sending out to the rioters? You're destroying your future and community. Ha! What future would that be? What community?
These people are forming their own tribes; their own communities. Difficult to expect some sort of normalized 'civil' range of behaviour from people without any money. Do we really expect people to civilly sit in their own filth? OH no, I don't mean to say these people are really poor, but would you like to live like some people in your own country? Hell no, so long as they sit quietly in a civil fashion everything is normal and mainstream.
The police cannot be everywhere at once, and what are the army going to do that the police don't? Escalating won't fix a thing, more people will keep getting born. Low mortality and no war to naturally cull the population and we have too many people sitting on their asses watching everyone else enjoy the good life.
/rant
But anyway, does that really matter all that much? Nobody is accountable anymore. People can (and do) help themselves to whatever they want. There are few strong communities. Kids with attitude and a sense of entitlement wrecking everything. What are the consequences going to be? Are the public safe?
My blood is boiling. I had a rant. lets get on with the discussion...
Money isn't the key to parenting, benefits (at least in the UK) ensure that all poor parents (good and bad alike) can afford the basics and the odd treat (as long as they don't waste it on drugs).
I think its about time people realised that nobody has 'the right' to be a parent. Every child has the right to have good parents/carers. Simple. If only people who really wanted to be good parents had kids, then the world would be a much better place. There are varying parental techniques and all have their pros and cons, but the key to any good parent is love respect and care for their child. It really is that simple.
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/82957,people,news,millionaires-daughter-and-organic-chef-among-accused
"In Great Britain low/no income people are offered council housing, benefits, free compulsory education, free healthcare. Whilst claiming benefits there are opportunities for free/heavily discounted adult/further education, free medical prescriptions etc. When starting work low income workers receive tax credits. I'm not sure what more we, as a nation, can offer these people? Individuals have to take some responsibility for themselves.
Any cuts in welfare benefits are due to the fact that the nation simply cannot afford to keep providing these benefits on such a scale.
Great Britain has been taking in immigrants in their droves, as a "much needed workforce" (Gordon Brown) - maybe this mass migration is partly to blame? Those who don't arrive here and further burden our already overstretched benefit system are taking what jobs are available to the potential blue colour workers who have been born here?
I think most intelligent people can understand the plight of these "rioters", but where do we go from here? What more must they be given? A free brand new plasma HD TV, designer trainers and a Wii, apparently."
"Laura Johnson, 19 (inset) is the daughter of a couple who run direct marketing Avongate. According to the Daily Mail, her "millionaire" father holds several company directorships and lives in a farmhouse in Orpington, Kent, where the grounds include a tennis court. Bexleyheath magistrates court heard that £5,000 worth of electronic goods from a looted retail park in Charlton were found in a car driven by Johnson, who is currently studying English and Italian at Exeter University."
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/82957,people,news,millionaires-daughter-and-organic-chef-among-accused
was she claiming benefits ? ,is she a migrant ? if think the answer is no to these questions, and I would hazard a guess that there was a significant number of these rioters who had an upbringing that was far from being poor.
If everyone could stop pigeonholing and sterotyping people, into this group or that group and start treating people as individuals who should be judged on their own actions, then we might have a chance of changing the inequalities we see in society with respect to rich and poor.
I wasn't. I-agree-with-you! These people really aren't that poor. The welfare state and the national health service are severely under strain, just to keep people 'alive', even when they're past it.
The problem itself is complicated, and the answer has not been adequately addressed, or so I think. Some people think that the cry of the poor has been unheard, but maybe this is not the case. Perhaps the powers that be don't know the answer. For a start there are not enough jobs to go around. Even so here is a situation where people have everything they need to survive yet go around breaking apart everything around them and looting.
As far as inequality is concerned if these people could have everything they ever wanted, what would they ask for? A condo? A boat? A swimming pool? I suspect most people are object centred- their aspirations come from television, peers and family.
But essentially what do we really mean when we cry for equality? Should we all live like kings? The rich obviously don't even have enough. If that is the case how are the 'poor' ever going to have enough?
Sorry, I'm a little tired, but it would be interesting to get some more input on this issue.
Anyway to me its clear what the problem is, it is a problem that is created by the society we live in, and that is GREED, in the western world (and a number of other countries) society rewards and encourages greed. I mean what motivates the daughter of a millionaire to steal £5000 worth of goods?, what motivates the bankers to take so many risks ? what motivates a billionaire like Rupert Murdoch to want to control the media and make more money, what motivates our politicians to fiddle their expenses , start wars and be swayed by the lobbying of big business ? its GREED GREED GREED!
Thats why people from every background looted when the riots were happening, because they thought they could get something for nothing, and they went for it, even tough most of them probably already have the big TV's and Xbox's that were stolen. Our capitalist societies promotes greed. Thats the underlying problem in my opinion, and if this is to be changed then somewhere along the line, politicians, parents (tough there are good parents out there that already teach their kids this) and society in general, have to start to stand up against this attitude, they have to start teaching their kids the downfalls of greed, and teach them its not right to just look out for yourself and be greedy and selfish. Kids have got to be taught whats right and wrong and what the real important things in life are, not the superficial materialist world they are brought up with at the present.
Ok I'll get of my soapbox
Did you know: the word 'happy' is a derivative of an Old NORSe word 'hap' in reference to ones lot in life, or luck, from the 13th century. To be happy-go-lucky in the modern sense, means easy-come, easy-go... to be indifferent.
Clearly there is no such thing as ones lot in life where freedom of choice & greed is concerned. To be freed from hardship was once a blessing in a tough old world:
He asks "what else can we offer these people?" How about the chance to get a job? And all that free education? They attend all sorts of classes and still CAN'T GET A JOB! I lived in England, and those benefits you complain the country can't afford anymore don't begin to let the young people even move out of their parent's house, unless they are married with children and then get a crappy place in a slum.
I'm not saying it's anyone's fault, only saying these young people are angry and frustrated and don't feel like they are part of society anymore. They are not criminals, lazy freeloaders, or any of those stereotypes. They're stuck on the bottom and that causes problems.
Oh, and those immigrants you claim are another drain on your society? They open stores and family shops and pay a huge share of the taxes. You know that, because there's a Paki fish and chips and little grocery store ran by foreign immigrants on every corner. So I have to conclude you just don't like foreigners in your country.
I get the impression from your post you have not been following the discussion. This is not just about poverty, but as Zidangus mentioned, it's about Parenting as well. It's not straightforward.
No there aren't enough jobs, but there is no easy solution, and the immigration problem doesn't help. But if you think it is so easy then you make it happen. How long did it take you to work out both the real problem and the solution? How much research did you do to come to your conclusion? Put your money where your mouth is and create jobs for people. Become a British politician and solve our problems. Don't you think our current leadership would fix this IF they could, or is it because they are all too busy rubbing their hands together and wallowing in riches?
Anyway that's besides the point- Not having a job is not an excuse for the violent behaviour we have seen over the past few days. In my own area- were it not for the police force- gangs of children would have burned one of our local schools down, and it was NOT due to frustration, it was just for the fun of it.
Also, I live in a multicultural society. The asian community are not 'foreign immigrants' as such, they're British people. The immigration problem has been unchecked for quite some time and- to the best of my knowledge- started in the 1950's. The problem is a surplus of people; it's not about race- black, white brown, whatever- everyone living in this country just don't need more people taking advantage of the benefits system. It is to our benefit having less people, but the mortality rates are very low. Not only that, the national health service has to deal with a 'self sabotaging' population who rely on free health to take responsibility for their own bad habits.
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Here are some more quotes from the same source and if you are interested spend a bit of time and read them all. Take care.
http://pennyred.blogspot.com/2011/08/panic-on-streets-of-london.html
"I don't agree with with the article, it's well written but is written by someone who has doesn't live in those communities or one like it. I do live in one, I grew up in one similar and I lived in the poorest areas of London. The forgotten are not the ones rioting, the ones rioting are those who mug, rob, beat up and intimidate their neighbours. The forgotten are the ones who know that when they are burgled by the "youth" who is now rioting there is no point calling the police because their estate scare even the police. The true forgotten are the ones who live in these communities but strive to live a life worth something. That look at the poverty they live in and don't steal but try to make a difference. That don't blame everyone else for their problems but find a solution for themselves. That don't use violence to be heard. And they aren't on the streets of our cities looting shops and burning homes. They are having their homes and communities destroyed by the few who don't care."
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Children are having children and one reason for this is the benefit a single mother gets. This is talked about openly on our streets. This has led to a parenting issue as described by the following poster >>
"As someone who teaches in an inner-city school in a very deprived area I can categorically say that it is very naive to say that this has nothing to do with parenting, this most certainly is a contributory factor to the lawlessness we have seen over the last few nights. Dealing with children on a daily basis who are scarred by their parents total lack of parenting skills provides insight into the future of society. Poverty has little to do with it! I teach many beautifully behaved children who strive for excellence in the classroom however they are backed by loving and supportive families. The children who have no respect for authority, lack any boundaries at home - No routines or constraints on their life. They are incapable of taking any responsibility for their actions it is always someone else fault. However, if certain sectors of society are willing to endorse this blame culture then their lack of responsibility persists.
I reiterate that I am not saying that bad parenting is the reason for the riots - I am saying that you simply cannot dismiss it as a contributory factor."
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Of course poor families have more of a struggle than families with money and resources. Poverty is hell on families. The father has to sometimes move out of the home to get whatever job is available, the mother has to work and there's never enough time and energy to devote to the children. Poverty reinforces drug and alcohol abuse and domestic violence, and the effects are magnified from lack of resources. Again, it's not because poor people are different from anyone else. What, you don't think the rich have drug and alcohol abuse and domestic violence? You don't think rich communities have missing fathers? What the poor don't have is the money to hire nannies or send their kids away to an elite boarding school or check into some posh treatment resort or bail their kid out of jail when he does get into trouble.
Like the claim they are just lazy freeloaders, saying bad parenting contributes never survives an objective study. There will be the usual range of great parents and missing parents and bad parents in the bunch. That's a total noncause. We should all examine the "common wisdom" as taught us about the poor and "lower" class. They simply are not different from you and me. Not in parenting, not in motivation, not in tendency to obey laws or any other factor. Except one. They are just poor and have no hope of being anything else but poor in their minds.
This reminds me of the classic nature vs nurture debate. On the one hand we have inspiring anecdotal tales such as 'The prince & the pauper', or modern adaptations such as 'Trading Places' that offer insight on the subject of environment and the issue of greed.
On the other hand we have our inbuilt qualities; a motivational pleasure/pain axis that can lead to a maddening work-watch-buy mentality. What the current riots have taught us is that people have no interest in books!? yet tv's clothes and jewelery are all fair game?!! I look at neighboring gardens- unkempt and caked in plastic sweet wrappers. I am reminded of the expression: 'with our thoughts we make the world' or in this case: 'with our sweet wrappers we litter the garden'
And look no further than toilet cleaners who win the lottery, to find evidence of congenital dullness and a challenged outlook. The collision (or collusion) of nature and nurture is sometimes like a fish out of water... and a shit sandwich is going to taste differently depending on who you ask. This is a question of value. All that shines is not golden!
What's important here is the use of or abuse of power in an opportunity rich world (albeit one that's rapidly being stipped from the clutches of the congenitally hungry). It's an ailment that can only be addressed at roots level.
For the 'fat controllers' power comes with another set of unique problems. Here's an interesting game called 'muck and brass' I found recently on a Victorian History site. Give it a whirl and see what you make of it everybody:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/launch_gms_muck_brass.shtml