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Obsessing Over Karma, Moral Delimnas

edited August 2011 in Buddhism Basics
Strictly speaking, Buddhism is something I have a marked interest in, but have not yet committed myself to practicing, primarily because I have mixed feelings and/or a lack of understanding involving certain aspects, the most intense of which, and which has been plaguing me for weeks, is karma.

I've always had some rudimentary belief in karma, even as a child in a Christian home; the basic pretense of good or bad things befalling you based on whether your actions towards others were good and was was a rudimentary one that made sense even to a young mind. However, as an adult, it's become something more complex, and honestly, my confusion over the matter has me in a standstill.

Basically, my question is this: are all things the result of karma, or do bad things sometimes happen without karmic causation?

This is a really huge, and confusing issue for me. It first struck me last month; I raise turtles, and a young softshell I was attached to suffocated on the fumes from the tea tree oil I was using to treat a fungal infection on her skin. It seemed...wholly unfair, that an unintended mistake of mine would lead to the suffering, and the no doubt painful and frightening death of a very innocent creature; a baby, really, not human, but...a baby. I mean, perhaps I had done something at some point to deserve the pain of losing her, but...I can;t imagine she did anything to deserve to die. It struck me as imbalanced, and since then, every report of a child being murdered, or abused, or an animal being mutilated for sport has left me confused, and pondering things I don't understand.

I'm sorry if I come off as, well...ignorant. The truth is, it's been hard for me to find information on even some of the basics of Buddhism that's written in a matter I can understand. a lot of internet resources seem to assume you're coming in with some sort of back knowledge and I get lost halfway through trying to find information or answers for myself.

Comments

  • Sorry about your baby turtle :(

    I like this site (in general, not just this link):

    http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm

    One thing about the "K" word is it is oft used nowadays, like a buzzword by people who mostly have no idea of what they are talking about. Personally I try to avoid the use of it where possible. That's just me, though, YMMV.

    I am sure that one or many of the other kind folks on this site will weigh in as to their use/understanding of it, and their personal experiences. There are many on here that are very savvy.

    At any rate, I wish you luck in your beginning path!
  • Thank you for the link, I'll read through it. It seems simply and frankly written, which is good. I really am trying to understand all of this, because there's many facets of Buddhism I deeply appreciate, but I keep getting....stuck.
  • vinlynvinlyn Colorado...for now Veteran
    You will find at least two bodies of thought on karma. On this particular website, it seems that the general belief is that karma is sort of something you do to yourself. You do something bad and it sort of "haunts" you...and it's your own mind that is doing the haunting.

    But on another Buddhist website I used to visit a lot, there was a very strong belief that karma was a force outside of yourself.
  • Hi, Sclerata, and welcome to the forum. Great name, lol ! ^_^

    We had a thread discussing what the Buddha said class of phenomena were not the results of our actions. He said, weather and random crime were not the result of our actions.
  • @Dakini Does child abuse qualify as a random crime? I have a hard time believing a ten year old who was locked in a shoe locker and suffocated to death experienced such a thing because of their own actions...you know...?
  • I was going to add something along those lines. Many people have trouble believing the teaching that all our life circumstances at birth are the result of past life actions. That's a tough one. In fact, I've seen it questioned on this forum whether the Buddha actually taught that. Seems there are conflicting passages in the sutras on that score. Some people find that teaching to be helpful when applied to their own lives. Other people find it unjust, like blaming the victim. There is no easy answer. It's up to everyone to consider, weigh, and decide if it helps further one's practice and one's path toward enlightenment.
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    edited August 2011


    Basically, my question is this: are all things the result of karma, or do bad things sometimes happen without karmic causation?

    No, not all things are a result of karma and yes things which people consider "bad" do sometimes happen without a karmic cause. :) However, to try and figure out which is which after something has happened, will make you go insane. Buddhist karma concerns itself with your actions.

    The Buddha chastised 3 views that were held by the priests of the day. He said all 3 were wrong.

    "There are priests...who hold this teaching: 'Whatever a person experiences — that is all caused by what was done in the past.'

    There are priests...who hold this teaching: 'Whatever a person experiences — that is all caused by a supreme being's act of creation.'

    There are priests...who hold this teaching,: 'Whatever a person experiences — that is all without cause & without condition.'

    He said all 3 were wrong.

    He also recommended to not speculate as to what the results of karma is. AKA the child abuse example you gave, otherwise "Whoever speculates about these things would go mad & experience vexation." Just like you are now. The Buddhist teaching on Karma concerns your actions.






  • @seeker242 Thank you, you've helped me put it into perspective a bit, and I think I'm going about this a bit of the wrong way. It's human nature to want to know why things happen, but getting too caught up in something like the nature of karma sort of defeats the purpose--which, as far as I have gathered, is to motivate us to be more mindful of our thoughts and actions, and to be overall better people. Getting caught up in the why and trying to pinpoint what caused what to happen not only drives a person insane--as you can see in my case--but it doesn't do anything in the way of helping me be a better person, does it?

    (Actually by all accounts all the dwelling and obsessing and fretting I've done has just made me stressed and cranky which by all accounts is making me a meaner person, which seems counter-indicative to say the least.)
  • DakiniDakini Veteran
    edited August 2011
    Great quote, seeker! thank you. :thumbsup:
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