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Reflecting on the 3 marks of existence
Talisman
Veteran
All conditioned phenomena are impermanent, all that is impermanent is Dukkha, and all that is Dukkha is not self.
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
The very earth and sun, subject to death and decay, shall perish, vanish, and change. The structures, religions, creations, dreams, desires, passions, histories, artistic achievments, philosophies, struggles and triumphs, men and women of the entire history of our world are also subject to death and decay and shall parish, vanish, and change.
Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta are absolute truths, and their eternality, their reality, their indesputible factuality is what gives rise to their escape. The path to liberation begins with recognizing one's imprisonment. This mindfulness of recognition gives rise to examination of conditioned phenomena. Examination gives rise to persistence is seeking the path. One's persistence gives rise to a sense of joy and rapture in anticipation of release. Enraptured in heart, one achieves peace of mind, composure, and serenity. At peace, the mind becomes concentrated. Thus the concentrated mind is observed in equanimity without regard to want or desire, to likes and dislikes, to comings and goings.
Thus observing the mind with equanimity, one discerns, seeks to fully comprehend, then directly realizes "this is Dukkha, this is the cause of Dukkha, this is the cessation of Dukkha, this is the path leading to the cessation of Dukkha." In this way does impermanence, dukkha, and not-self lead one to enter upon the path leading to liberation from impermanence, dukkha, and not-self. The seed for unbinding is sown in the nature of one's bonds. Examination of the lock gives rise to understanding how it may be broken.
Know your boundaries and thus transcend them!
Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.
The very earth and sun, subject to death and decay, shall perish, vanish, and change. The structures, religions, creations, dreams, desires, passions, histories, artistic achievments, philosophies, struggles and triumphs, men and women of the entire history of our world are also subject to death and decay and shall parish, vanish, and change.
Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta are absolute truths, and their eternality, their reality, their indesputible factuality is what gives rise to their escape. The path to liberation begins with recognizing one's imprisonment. This mindfulness of recognition gives rise to examination of conditioned phenomena. Examination gives rise to persistence is seeking the path. One's persistence gives rise to a sense of joy and rapture in anticipation of release. Enraptured in heart, one achieves peace of mind, composure, and serenity. At peace, the mind becomes concentrated. Thus the concentrated mind is observed in equanimity without regard to want or desire, to likes and dislikes, to comings and goings.
Thus observing the mind with equanimity, one discerns, seeks to fully comprehend, then directly realizes "this is Dukkha, this is the cause of Dukkha, this is the cessation of Dukkha, this is the path leading to the cessation of Dukkha." In this way does impermanence, dukkha, and not-self lead one to enter upon the path leading to liberation from impermanence, dukkha, and not-self. The seed for unbinding is sown in the nature of one's bonds. Examination of the lock gives rise to understanding how it may be broken.
Know your boundaries and thus transcend them!
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Comments
Okay so everything, totally everything is impermanent. And by totally experiencing this impermanence then we will have the permanence of knowing impermanence. But since the mind is about the least permanent thing there is, then we go back and forth quite often with knowing this impermanence (until we hit the enlightement jackpot and stay permanently with impermanence).
So maybe the permance of impermance is really impermanent? At some point letting go of permanence to say that our letting go is permanent (while knowing our mind is very changeable) is still about us getting permanence.
I feel less confused by saying this but maybe I am less understandable too.
As it is stated in the chain of dependent origination, consciousness is conditioned both by namarupa and volitional formations. As such, consciousness is a key factor in the path to old age and death and the mass of human suffering.
You have to look at it like this:
This is consciousness
Consciousness is caused by volitional formations
The cessation of volitional formations would mean the cessation of consciousness
The path leading to the cessation of consciousness is the noble 8-fold path, namely: Right view, Right intent, Right speech, Right action, Right livelihood, Right effort, Right mindfulness, Right concentration
What is permanent is not a consciousness devoid of suffering. What is permanent is the cessation of suffering itself. In an instance where no consciousness can be perceived to arise, is there ground for the seed of suffering to take root?
*meant to address you in the prior post*
"All conditioned phenomena are impermanent, all that is impermanent is Dukkha, and all that is Dukkha is not self. "
Very poetic, me gusta. But I think your delightful rendering overlooks the architectonic simplicity of the Three Foundations; they come before experience, before phenomena - they are true in all possible causal systems.
namaste
Also, what do you mean, "they come before experience, before phenomena"? You seem to be suggesting that impermanence, dukkha, and not-self are some kind of reified cosmological order/law/code. This is not the case. There is no such thing as "before phenomena." The 3 marks are not a "thing"; they are descriptive adjectives for describing conditioned phenomena.
To assert the belief in a "before phenomena" is to assert the belief in a reified principle of order and control that is both causeless and the cause of all other conditioned phenomena. Specifically it is belief in God. No such entity, order, principle, command, or agent could feasibly exist.
Not at all. Perhaps you see a different Three marks to me?
>>>>No such entity, order, principle, command, or agent could feasibly exist.
So you can ponder the imponderable?! That's neat, you can do what even the Buddha couldn't!
Bows.
xx
You are quick to refute and even sarcastically dismiss my claims, but put forth no explanation of how your understanding of the marks differs from my own. I don't even really know what you are trying to say.
It seems like you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm happy to accept your views and understand that as equals in our status of non-awakening, neither of us have the absolute answers to any of these questions. However, I take offense when people throw sarcasm my way in order to try and bolster their own egos.
Also, to more directly respond to what you said, I did not once state that "the Three Foundations [are] dependent upon beings". The 3 marks are not THINGS. This seems to be such an overwhelming misconception that I'm compelled to make an entirely new thread specifically about it. The 3 marks are a way of describing conditioned/dependently coarisen/interdependent phenomena. As in, that which is conditioned is impermanent, is disatisfying, is not-self. It doesn't make sense to say there is "impermanence" and just leave it at that. There is no such "thing" as impermanence. There is the "impermanence of conditioned phenomena."
There is no need to ponder such things as "before conditioned phenomena." Such a conjecture is the real imponderable. Me stating that there is no such thing as God is my personal belief based on insight into the nature of interdependent phenomena. I am not "pondering" anything.
Impermanence is not a reified "essence," underlying or preceding what we call "reality," nor is emptiness. Nagarjuna and many other Buddhist teachers are quick to point this out.
>>>>You are quick to refute and even sarcastically dismiss my claims, but put forth no explanation of how your understanding of the marks differs from my own.
Dude/Dudette, Im really not here for an argument, or to insult or be insulted nor have I been sarcastic (Ewww.. shudders). I started off giving you what is probably the most complimentary comment I have given on this forum. I really liked and like your OP.
So please, if you are going to reply to this can we loose the dukka:)
>>>I don't even really know what you are trying to say.
Simply that the three marks are true of all contingent systems, not just those that are alive or sentient.
>>>It seems like you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
I am not arguing. I'm way past arguing about Dharma:)
>>>I'm happy to accept your views and understand that as equals in our status of non-awakening, neither of us have the absolute answers to any of these questions.
I believe absolutely that the three marks are true of all possible things in all possible realities.
>>>However, I take offense when people throw sarcasm my way in order to try and bolster their own egos.
Yea, you might want to get over that one.
>>>The 3 marks are a way of describing conditioned/dependently coarisen/interdependent phenomena.
I disagree. I think the three marks are three of the five (at least?) foundational truths of all realities, the other two being the Law of Noncontradiction and the Law of Identity.
>>>There is no need to ponder such things as "before conditioned phenomena."
From a dharma practice point of view I agree, there is no need.
From a dharma philosophy point of view I disagree, I think that to understand the architectonics of dharma (which is an indulgence, not a necessity) the first principles really are a good starting point for a bottom up approach.
>>>Such a conjecture is the real imponderable.
I disagree. The three marks are easy to see in any imaginine possible world. Or with a handful of pebbles or a bit of paper and pen.
>>>Me stating that there is no such thing as God is my personal belief based on insight into the nature of interdependent phenomena. I am not "pondering" anything.
I was trying to think why you would think I was sarcastic and can only think it was my reply to the above point. That wasnt my intention at all. The
Please dont reply to this if you have more dukka to bring, it's so uneeded. If you have more chat and can do it without dropping neg bombs then bring it on! I love this topic:)
Namaste
Dhamma-niyama Sutta: The Discourse on the Orderliness of the Dhamma
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.134.than.html
The Pali word 'nirodha' more aptly means to 'extinguish', to 'quench'
So what extinguishes are the 'fires' of greed, hatred & delusion
What 'quenches' is the 'thirst' (rather than the body-mind)
The suttas advise fully discerning the 3C's results in disencantment & dispassion, which are the end of craving & attachment
suffering ends like this, i.e., with craving & attachment end
however, as for the 3Cs, they never end. the enlightened being is not liberated from impermanence, dukkha and not-self. to the contrary, the enlightened being is saturated in the clear vision of impermanence, dukkha and not-self
please note: the word 'dukkha' in the 4NTs does not have the same meaning as in the 3Cs
:coffee:
if there was no [conditioned] phenomena, all that would exist would be the Nibbana element [asankhata dhatu; unconditioned element]
if that was the case, there would be no impermanence & no unsatisfactoriness
only one charactertistic would remain, namely, anatta (not-self)