Article: Savage Love [Explicit]

tmottes

Savage love is a syndicated alternative advice column in the USA. I read this letter/response and felt it was worth sharing.

Letter:

I have always been attracted to women. But I have had experiences with other males as well. All fondling. I have at times found the penis erotic, but it does not consume me. I enjoy women and prefer them in every respect. I get pegged, so to speak, as being gay quite a lot. I recognize why: I flirt with men. I like being nice and making people happy. I think some guys confuse my polite "I love everybody" hippie vibe for my being willing to suck their dicks.
I am a pretty boy, so perhaps this causes confusion. My eyes are feminine, I have long lashes, I make eye contact with everyone. Also, I notice that I tend to display "mate poaching behavior," meaning I tend to flirt with women who are in relationships, and I have been quite a few women who are in relationships, or married, and these "committed" women are often attracted to me.
I guess I am just a flirtatious guy. I consider myself a very sensual person. Also: I act more gay around homophobes, to the point where even I start to question myself. Yet I know I love women. I enjoy being with women and I am happy with women. It dawns on me that these accusers -the men who think I am gay- might be the insecure ones. Many of the homophobes I meet display dominant behavior to each other: squabbling with friends, getting drunk and fucking with each other. From my hippie "all-is-love" perspective, this seems more gay than just being nice, sensitive, and caring.
To break it down: Sometimes I feel gay. But usually it is only around insecure homophobes who I don't consider physically beautiful at all! I have been around a lot of gay people. I worked a promotion for a pride festival and a liquor promotion for a gay bar. I don't feel gay around gay people!
I feel very frustrated, Dam because I don't feel confused at all, but I feel like I confuse people.
Damn Acronyms Really Evade

Response:

I should probably reread your letter before I band out a response, DARE, but that might prompt me to throw my laptop, myself, or both right out the open window i'm sitting next to. So forgive me for dashing this off: Yes, DARE, you confuse people. And you're doing it on purpose, pretty little hippie, as you damn well know. But allow me to unpack your bullshit for you just in case in you down well don't...
You pursue women who have boyfriends and flirt with men who have issues because you're an egotistical little narcissist who derivces sadistic pleasure from causing erotic chaos wherever you go. When you bed women who have boyfriends or husbands, it proves that you're just as hot as you think you are; when you flirt with and unnerve straight-identified homophobes, it proves that you're just as hot as you think you are. But you don't allow yourself to flirt with good-looking dudes, DARE, because you're not secure enough in your sexuality to risk batting your eyelashes at a guy who you might actually want to go to bed with.
I'm sorry if all of that sounds harsh, pretty little hippie, and there are worse things you could do than be a player and a prick tease. (And, hey, I'm all for fucking with conflicted closet cases.) But at some point, you're going to have to admit -at least to yourself- that your "I love everybody" routine is a disguise, and you get off on creating confusion, and you're a narcissist (perhaps with a cause) with a sadistic streak (not that there's anything wrong with a sadistic steak, properly channeled).
You're the satyr, DARE, not the faun. Own it.

Dandelion

Hmmm. It reads to me like the letter is also written by the person responding! Maybe it was a DARE!

Bhogakapala

The letter writer sounds cruel spirited and passive aggressive. I think the responder correctly identifies his narcissism, but not the underlying woundedness/fear/hatred/self-loathing that it likely conceals.

tmottes

@Dandelion I had actually thought this as well, but it has a good message none-the-less.

@Bhogakapala I agree with you about not exposing the underlying issues. I wonder if Dan thought that revealing too much, too soon would be result in the overall message not being received as well (haha not that being called a satyr would be either). I thought it was interesting that the letter writer viewed himself in such a harmless manner. It made me wonder what things I think are harmless that actually do great harm.

Dandelion

Hi @tmottes yes I agree with you. In a sense whether or not it is real is perhaps obsolete because there will be ppl out there in similar circumstances. If it is genuine, I would have liked to have seen a more gentle response from the columnist, although that's not to say I don't agree with the columnist, BUT.... There are good ways and bad ways of trying to help someone. But who knows, maybe brutal honesty is what the recipient needs right now and can actually handle it. I like the thread you have started :-D

Dandelion

It`s interesting because in a way it is actually easier to be more open sometimes with ppl on forums than with ppl we know in our lives personally. Anonymity I think is the reason. Even if you're judged badly or even misunderstood you're not Really exposing yourself into such a vulnerable position in situations by writing a letter to an 'agony aunt' or other forum members as no one really knows who you are. Personally I respect the individual (if we assume the individual really does exist) for their honesty about themselves.

zombiegirl

@tmottes i've been on the receiving end of brutal honesty and i think that sometimes, that's what it takes to get through to someone. i rather like dan savage as well. but i will say, it is possible that some of the brutality of his comments may come from personal reasons. i think every gay person has had at least one or two instances where they encounter a "confused" person or even a "manipulative" person who leads you on and makes you feel very frustrated, sometimes even breaking your heart in the worst instances.

AMH

wow, I wasn't going to read this because I didn't see how it related but I had to sit here for a medical thing for awhile and guess what, it really did relate. So I had a recent situation that I can only say i should have known better than to get that much in a vulnerable position. But in any case I did and I learned a lot about the people I was hanging around with. I am not sure that the person doing the 'approaching' will ever understand that he was waiting for about 2 years until I got vulnerable enough because in his heart he thought he was doing something good for me. After I kicked him, literally, across the couch and went to leave he still thought I really wanted him but was scared? The only way to learn what these little manipulative tricks are is to live through someone using or attempting to use them on you.

I would agree the response is rather harsh, I can see cases where there is no other choice however I usually look back when i have been harsh and thought I could have done much better. More skillful. I guess sometimes you can figure that the softer or more understanding approach is not going to do much besides spin you into knots anyway.

tmottes

@Aheerdt I am glad you gained a bit out of reading the article. I felt like the situation had so many subtle lessons it was worth sharing here.

zombiegirl

wow, I wasn't going to read this because I didn't see how it related but I had to sit here for a medical thing for awhile and guess what, it really did relate. So I had a recent situation that I can only say i should have known better than to get that much in a vulnerable position. But in any case I did and I learned a lot about the people I was hanging around with. I am not sure that the person doing the 'approaching' will ever understand that he was waiting for about 2 years until I got vulnerable enough because in his heart he thought he was doing something good for me. After I kicked him, literally, across the couch and went to leave he still thought I really wanted him but was scared? The only way to learn what these little manipulative tricks are is to live through someone using or attempting to use them on you.

I would agree the response is rather harsh, I can see cases where there is no other choice however I usually look back when i have been harsh and thought I could have done much better. More skillful. I guess sometimes you can figure that the softer or more understanding approach is not going to do much besides spin you into knots anyway.

i completely understand what you're getting at here @AHeerdt
i've been there with a friend of mine before and to this day, he will say that he only ever wanted to be my friend. when i was younger, i have a vivid memory of attending church and they said that the devil was around every corner, whispering lies in your ears. now, i don't actually believe this, but there was a point where i realized that he did this to me. if i expressed any sort of doubt or uncertainty in my relationship, he would cling onto it so fast and spin words to bend me towards where he wanted me. but once i became wise to certain things, and he tried something and then backpedaled so fast, putting spin on the situation just like a politician... i couldn't go back. i saw our relationship for what it really was. i'm very wary of these people now, but i must say, i am better for having met him because i am more aware of tactics like these now.

Spaceless

Whichever, the antidote is meditate on Namo Amitabha and wish everyone well and peace.