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"Right" Teachings of Buddha & The "Modern" World
buddhafoot
Veteran
"Right" Teachings of Buddha & The "Modern" World
As with many teachings - there are two Points of View; the lessons and teachings we learn from various followings and how we integrate those teachings in our day to day lives.
I'm wondering how various Buddhists integrate these, sometimes, two opposing poles of thought into their day to day lives.
Today, I was watching Free Speech Television which was showing various situations that existin the US on a daily basis.
Unions
There has been quite a bit of controversy over the last few decades. This is not to say that Unions have only caused controversy over the last forty or fifty years. Unions have, at the least, sparked debate and heated discussion, and at the extreme, death.
But, I was watching a show on Wal-Marts going up in various parts of the country and the issues it is causing with many citizens. In this particular episode, Unions were not hired for the building of yet another Wal-Mart that the community, it seemed, did not want. How Union workers were angry, vicious and cruel to non-Union workers trying to get to the work place.
Communities are angry with Wal-Marts because they, supposedly, do not pay good wages to their workers (these same workers that have decided for themselves if they wish to gain employment at this company), pay no health care, undermine the community structure of other small business that have been serving the community for years, etc. But these same communities allow corporations like this to move in, seek to gain employment there, and become patrons to "Good Deals".
I also have first hand experience of a corporation that was in town that was Union. I remember hearing about how many workers at this factory used to laugh about how they could rip the company off by either having someone else clock in for them or how they could do a couple of hours worth of work and then sleep the 6 remaining hours of their shift. But, you know what? The company couldn't stay profitable and had to close it's doors. Everyone was layed off - Union and non-Union workers
Since, the non-Union workers had no recourse, they went out and found other jobs. But, the people that were Union? Those same people that used to brag and boast about how they were able to rip off the company? They went ballistic! They felt the company owed them something for their lackadaisical employment. They cursed the company and those that didn't share their point of view. They attacked the homes and family of people that thought, "well, maybe you need to do like the rest of us and just get a job!"
When does compassion come into play? How does one "act" our Right Speech, Right Intention, Right Livelihood, Right Mindfulness, etc. in the face of those that don't follow those modes of thinking? Is compassion to give up your job so that those without may have?
Abortion
Everyone in the states knows the battle with abortion since Roe -vs- Wade. It carries throughout our daily lives and into the very heart of our political arena.
A persons body is their own. And with Roe -vs- Wade, a woman has a constitutional right to decide what happens to her own body - even while carrying another being.
Some people say, "It's a woman's right to decide what happens to her body." while others state "A woman can do what she wants to do to her own body - but she doesn't have God-like authority to decide what happens to the body inside of her".
Why should men and women have the right to decide what happens to their own body - but someone else, doesn't.
Some say that a "living being" is one that can sustain itself, by itself. Basically that the fetus is truly not a being because it requires the mother to grown and thrive. Even doctors make decisions like this. If a woman is pregnant and they either have the choice to save the mother or save the fetus - it's usually agreed that they will save the mother and lose the fetus.
I don't think Buddha had to engage in issues like this during his lifetime and Englightenment. But, Enlightened teachings cover a variety of issues.
What is Right Livelihood? Is saving the mother to allow the fetus to die a "Right" decision? And which of us has that right? Is a woman's body her own while carrying the life of another? Does a man never have the right to life that he has helped create? How is it feasible to take the life of one (by bombing an abortion clinic) who is thinking about terminating the life of another? Is it a life?
How do you, as Buddhist, deal with these issues of the "current" day? Does the teachings of Buddha transcend the "popular" laws of the day?
-bf
As with many teachings - there are two Points of View; the lessons and teachings we learn from various followings and how we integrate those teachings in our day to day lives.
I'm wondering how various Buddhists integrate these, sometimes, two opposing poles of thought into their day to day lives.
Today, I was watching Free Speech Television which was showing various situations that existin the US on a daily basis.
Unions
There has been quite a bit of controversy over the last few decades. This is not to say that Unions have only caused controversy over the last forty or fifty years. Unions have, at the least, sparked debate and heated discussion, and at the extreme, death.
But, I was watching a show on Wal-Marts going up in various parts of the country and the issues it is causing with many citizens. In this particular episode, Unions were not hired for the building of yet another Wal-Mart that the community, it seemed, did not want. How Union workers were angry, vicious and cruel to non-Union workers trying to get to the work place.
Communities are angry with Wal-Marts because they, supposedly, do not pay good wages to their workers (these same workers that have decided for themselves if they wish to gain employment at this company), pay no health care, undermine the community structure of other small business that have been serving the community for years, etc. But these same communities allow corporations like this to move in, seek to gain employment there, and become patrons to "Good Deals".
I also have first hand experience of a corporation that was in town that was Union. I remember hearing about how many workers at this factory used to laugh about how they could rip the company off by either having someone else clock in for them or how they could do a couple of hours worth of work and then sleep the 6 remaining hours of their shift. But, you know what? The company couldn't stay profitable and had to close it's doors. Everyone was layed off - Union and non-Union workers
Since, the non-Union workers had no recourse, they went out and found other jobs. But, the people that were Union? Those same people that used to brag and boast about how they were able to rip off the company? They went ballistic! They felt the company owed them something for their lackadaisical employment. They cursed the company and those that didn't share their point of view. They attacked the homes and family of people that thought, "well, maybe you need to do like the rest of us and just get a job!"
When does compassion come into play? How does one "act" our Right Speech, Right Intention, Right Livelihood, Right Mindfulness, etc. in the face of those that don't follow those modes of thinking? Is compassion to give up your job so that those without may have?
Abortion
Everyone in the states knows the battle with abortion since Roe -vs- Wade. It carries throughout our daily lives and into the very heart of our political arena.
A persons body is their own. And with Roe -vs- Wade, a woman has a constitutional right to decide what happens to her own body - even while carrying another being.
Some people say, "It's a woman's right to decide what happens to her body." while others state "A woman can do what she wants to do to her own body - but she doesn't have God-like authority to decide what happens to the body inside of her".
Why should men and women have the right to decide what happens to their own body - but someone else, doesn't.
Some say that a "living being" is one that can sustain itself, by itself. Basically that the fetus is truly not a being because it requires the mother to grown and thrive. Even doctors make decisions like this. If a woman is pregnant and they either have the choice to save the mother or save the fetus - it's usually agreed that they will save the mother and lose the fetus.
I don't think Buddha had to engage in issues like this during his lifetime and Englightenment. But, Enlightened teachings cover a variety of issues.
What is Right Livelihood? Is saving the mother to allow the fetus to die a "Right" decision? And which of us has that right? Is a woman's body her own while carrying the life of another? Does a man never have the right to life that he has helped create? How is it feasible to take the life of one (by bombing an abortion clinic) who is thinking about terminating the life of another? Is it a life?
How do you, as Buddhist, deal with these issues of the "current" day? Does the teachings of Buddha transcend the "popular" laws of the day?
-bf
0
Comments
Sorry, that doesn't contribute to your discussion...
Anyway you have posed two very important points/questions.
I would think one would conduct themselves in accordance with the Eightfold Path just as they would with those that do share the same thinking.
Giving up one's job to give to another I suppose would be compassionate...but what would be the greater good? Having someone work for a company that abuses it and basically steals the pay check...(meanwhile leaving themselves hungry)? I don't mean to sound harsh, but let's face it, we need to provide basic needs for ourselves too.
On abortion: MY OPINION mind you...yes this body is my own BUT when I SHARE it with another being, I am doing just that. I realize there are circumstances that happen to cause unwanted prenancies. Having never experienced this, or a wanted pregnancy for that matter, I do not feel I can make a judgement call. All I can say at this point is: life is life. Life is precious and a gift. It is not ours to judge, take away, or fiddle around with. Doctors that perform abortions have to make their own choices on Right Mindfulness, Intention, and Livlihood.
In a perect world, every woman would make the selfless decision to bring the child into the world.
In a perfect world, every woman would make an educated decision regarding that child's well-being.
In a perfect world, every child would be loved and cherished.
But alas, we do not live in such a world. Hence, our dilemma.
It is a delimna. We have to remember that everyone doesn't believe in Buddha or even the teachings of Buddha - yet, as Buddhists, we deal with these issues at some time in our lives.
As for the abortion issue: I think the statement is one that: A child once it is born relies on the same outside influences for life: food, shelter and clothing. While inside of the womb and growing - this same being (if removed from the womb before it has developed necessary organs) cannot sustain itself even if given necessities like food, shelter and clothing. The fetus at this stage requires the environment of the womb to form.
I should have made that a little clearer...
-bf
In a perfect world, I believe both mothers and fathers would be involved in these processes.
But, you are correct, we do not live in a perfect world.
And I guess the $24K question I was asking is: how do the rest of our members deal with issues like this, in times and situations that are not geared towards the teachings of Buddha.
Like those Buddhists that lived through Vietnam and Cambodia.
Or on even more mundane issues than life or death. How do we as Buddhists deal with them using the "right" precepts we've learned.
-bf
At the time, being a lowly student teacher, I kept my mouth shut. But had I been part of the faculty, I am not sure I could have. I wanted to say..."Why are we here people???"
TO TEACH! Granted, this is a MINOR incident compared to the example you stated.
As Buddhist, I wouldn't think we'd participate in a heated arguement for it serves no purpose. A conversation, yes.
I am not sure what I would do if union members actually attacked me or my home.
I am still thinking about this and now just sharing thoughts as they come. But I see as a great thread for discusion.
Both your 'quandaries' may be addressed quite simply by taking a good close look at, learning, understanding, accepting and finally following the Eightfold Path. The Buddha couldn't have made it any more simple than that, and it was the first thing he taught. It was also the last thing he taught. And he adhered to it for the whole of his awakened life.
What better example could one have....? And to my mind, I have found no better set of guidelines than these..... They provide all the answers you'll ever need.
I work in a field that debates unions regularly. Nurses are supposed to care and provide care no matter what. One thing that many people may not be aware of is how nurses are treated. We get talked to like we are second class people at times by physicians. Families talk to us in ways that they wouldn't talk to their dog. The working conditions at times can be quite poor for the floor nurse. I work ICU so it's a little better but the ethical problems abound. Try taking care of 12-15 people and remember everything that every patient needs. It's impossible. But it is expected of the floor nurse. Don't they have the right to decent treatment? I happen to be pro union. I happen also to be against abusing the system. I give an honest days work for an honest days pay. In the 9 years I've been a nurse, I've only fallen asleep once and it was on my break. I woke up and the patients weren't affected, but the guilt I felt meant that it wouldn't happen again.
Abortion is a sticky topic also. I can't say that I'm either pro-life or pro-choice as it is different in every situation. I agree with Fede in that the Noble Eightfold Path tells us what to do as Buddhists. There are plenty of people that aren't Buddhists. Could I participate in an abortion? No. I would find that morally wrong. But I also don't think I have the right to tell another human being what to do either. Right now, the law in the U.S. is that abortion is legal. We must follow that.
In nursing school, I did a 2 day observation in an abortion clinic (my choice). It was the most fascinating and heartbreaking rotation I did. Not all people are the little sluts that the pro-lifers would make you think. I saw a 12 year old girl who didn't know why she was there. Her mother brought her down to have the abortion. Almost cried looking at this girl with pigtails crying as her mother told them "We're having it done". I saw a woman who said "You don't need to tell me anything. This is my 4th time. I'm ready to hop on the table right now". I found her appalling. The reason that I mention these incidents is that we are talking about real live people. I saw the "tissue room". Broke my heart as you could tell that it was human tissue. Everyone needs to decide for themselves.
Sure, it would be great if every unwanted child were adopted. But what if the woman doesn't want to go through a pregnancy. What about children that are not the average "white, cuddly baby" that will grow up to be "All American boy or Miss Whatever". Those children need love also. I'm speaking of children of color, mentally or physically challenged, or something that a couple might not find desirable. Send them to an orphanage? I'm not trying to be facetious but realistic here.
Some more to toss around.
That was a pretty heavy post, Jer.
When I was talking about people falling asleep at work - no, it wasn't due to the fact that they were dead tired from overwork and a taxing job. It was due to the fact that these guys went out nightly partying and drinking like animals. Then would come in the next day, work for a couple of hours and then sleep for 6 hours in this "special" place that none of the bosses knew about.
Or, not feeling like coming into work, but would have a co-worker punch in for them so that they could get pay while staying at home sleeping.
As one member here points out to me quite regularly, my views must be pretty limited. I guess I've either had the fortune or misfortune of working in the technology field ever since I was 20. I guess I don't get to see many of the issues that affect various groups of people because I'm not party to it.
I wasn't making a point about abortion clinics. I didn't even mean to sound like I was against abortions. I won't say what I believe in because I don't want this thread to sway one way or the other.
But, both examples you gave were awful. Hearing about a young girl that probably doesn't even really have an idea of what sex is (aside from what MTV tells 12 year olds what sex is) being thrust into something like this.
And then the other woman who took to abortions like some people take to morning coffee.
Unfortunately, many Pro-Lifers say, "well, have the baby and it could be adopted" - but realistically, we have more baby's up for adoption in the world than there are people wanting to adopt (and yes, I know there are thousands of people lined up to adopt children - but I think the numbers don't match up 1 to 1).
-bf
Or is it that the adoption agencies are so stringent in their rules that people who would make perfectly adequate parents are ruled out?
Something cock-eyed somewhere - but what do I know? I only adopt dogs - blooming hundreds of them in my life - and not one of them my ideal choice, just unwanted scraps of life that needed looking after.
If you would like, I'll stop thinking and become my smart alecky self.
The Middle Way, my friend.
Some seriousness... some smartaleckyness.
I thought it was a good post. It's good to hear and see others perceptions. Even though I'll probably get dinged for using the word "perception" - sometimes, whether Enlightened or not - it's the only point of view we have "at this moment".
-bf
I agree with Jerbear. Personally, I am pro-life. But I don't feel I have the right to force my opinions on others. That's their issue, their karma so to speak. It's really not a quandry for me.
As for Unions...they are meant to do good and I believe for the most part, they do.
Wal-Mart is a successful company. They are going to get blasted for anything that pops up. I am sure that they are not the only big company that abuses their workers. Certainly, that is not to let them off the hook. There are companies everyday that are moving to Mexico for cheaper labor. Wal-Mart gets bashed b/c they stay in the country and do it.
The problem is the 'higher ups' with little thought to the common citizen.
Everything you hear about walmart...about the abusive corporate practices...are in my opinion a reflection of what is wrong with our modern society. But on a a personal level, I can tell you that my time at Walmart helped me along a path that led to Buddhism.
We've had lots of corporations that do things that affect all of us.
Wasn't there an Enroy? Elvin? Enril? or something like that not too long ago? I think we're still feeling the impact of that.
-bf
Both would require compassion.
Like you said, compassion tugs at your heart regarding the 12 year because of the trauma she is going through.
Although hardened by and this process in the past, compassion should be maintained for the older woman as well. The karma she is creating for herself, the hardened shell she has built around her, the ease of callous remarks when she is doing this - she has built quite a wall around herself which will take years to break down.
And we are talking about people.
I was just reading a number of chapters in Heart of Buddha's Teachings (trying to catch up, which I believe I have!) about Right Livelihood.
TNH brings up so many elements regarding Right Livelihood that even made me question my own job and how I perform it. He also is realistic enough to state that while we may not engage in Right Livelihood - do we not have children to feed? Mortgages to pay?
Now, I'm not saying that working at Wal-Mart is bad by any stretch. Many times a company like this is a god-send for people needing work. My question would be posed more to either the people petitioning with hatred and anger, the corporation paying off city officials and bleeding a city of it's commerce, the decisions that are made that do not incorporate a mindfulness or compassion for people - but for the greed, craving and desire for another dollar.
I think the title of this thread was really the basis of my question. The text I put in the body of the thread was just a couple of off-hand examples.
How do "we" use Buddha's teachings in the modern world. It is no world like Buddha ever saw...
-bf
"Outwardly", technologically, etc., but the "inner", the psychological state is the same conditioned reality.
Hence, the topic and the question.
-bf
One of my favorite sutras of all time.
I just gnarled my way through the registration process, and this is my first post. I know that this isn't the right place for that, but hey, I'm all gnarled out for today.
Maybe I'll come back tomorrow, and maybe it will be some other day. Have a nice forum.
Nice of you to pop in!
...but you said: "It is no world like Buddha ever saw" and it's being pointed out that the the so called 'outer' world is insignificant. The human problem is not "out there".
I would respectfully submit that I know what I was referencing. The, very significant, outside world is like no world that Buddha ever saw. I believe there are issues being dealt with that Buddha never dreamed of dealing with. And the Human Problem is out there in a way. Since no one person is "independant" our actions and the actions of others affect us all - Buddhist and non-Buddhist.
But, I would have to say that, what Buddha taught of "internally" has remained the same and still seems to be true today.
My point wasn't to split hairs or answer questions of deep Dharma - my question was how does one incorporate the Right teachings of Buddha in the Modern World.
It could be something as simple as working for an arms manufacturer and how you deal with it. Working for a union and being asked to create a picket(sp) line for other non-union workers seeking "scab" work. Working in an abortion clinic. Being a police officer. Sitting around at work writing messages during work hours - when that is not what your employer hired you to do. Is that Right Livelihood? To be playing while your employer is paying. Or would Right Mindfulness teach us that if we've agreed to work 8 hours a day for someone - should we not be as mindful as possible - doing the best that we can for our employer during those eight hours?
Those were the kinds of questions I was asking or asking people to think of. I'm sorry that I only gave two examples and I probably wasn't clear enough.
-bf
Some of them - but not all of them.
Good point!
-bf
So are you, babe!
...and you thought that people were joking when they mistook your picture for Audrey...:)
Palzang
It also relates to things like accumulating "merit". How are these things knowable? How it is that I could "see" this rather than simply "believe" it because someone else said it? Is this also smething to "come and see" rather than "come and believe"?
This is one aspect of the Tibetan tradition that has continually puzzled me.
The Teacher teaches, and teaches what he knows in his heart to be true...
But the student still has to accept that teaching, and subject it to scrutiny, just like everything else...
Whatever the Rights or Wrongs, at that moment, we should lay all that aside, and simply manifest total Compassion for both Mother and Child. The pain, suffering and torment of anyone opting, or being obliged to opt for this procedure, is unimaginable - yet tangible. What we know within our Hearts to be true for us, may not at that moment be what that person needs.... So if our Truth is not their Truth, it is of no importance. The important, is to Love, Wisely.