Is Buddhism a religion in the West?

wondering

All across the eastern countries Buddhism has been a regular religion in the peoples everyday life. I once talked with a young woman from China who said something to the effect that Buddhism is just accepted as a regular part of their everyday life where she lived in China. In America it seems quite different. I have scanned many messages here on this forum, and Buddhism seems to be something different than and separate from everyday living. It appears that the issue of what Buddhism IS, is still being debated here in America. I was wondering why there is such a big difference in the acceptance of Buddhism in America, and how it is accepted as a regular part of daily life in most eastern countries ( that are not mainly Muslim )?

Mountains

The age-old question, to which there is no single answer. In the traditional, dictionary sense, no, it's not a religion. But to many people (including HHDL) it is. Or at least parts of it are.

In the end, it really doesn't matter though. That's just a label that has no meaning.

wondering

In the end, it really doesn't matter though. That's just a label that has no meaning.

To millions of people it has very important meaning. For example the Tibetan people have many rituals surrounding their belief in Buddhism. In Japan Buddhism is taken quite seriously as their main religion. I have heard this answer many times from people who practice Buddhism in the West, that it is not a religion because it is just a label. But don't we label thousands of things so we can communicate what they are? Why is there so much confusion on what to label Buddhism? Maybe if it were a religion like Christianity in the West, then much of the doubt and debate would subside. Just an idea....

vixthenomad

Dictionary.com's definition of a religion:

re·li·gion   [ri-lij-uhn]
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

So, yes, it arguably is a religion. All-powerful deities are optional.

wondering

So, yes, it arguably is a religion. All-powerful deities are optional.

Yes, from a dictionary's description Buddhism is a religion. They why do so many people in the west say it isn't?

vixthenomad

Possibly because many people in the West don't use dictionaries often enough...

andyZ

I have scanned many messages here on this forum, and Buddhism seems to be something different than and separate from everyday living.

That is indeed the problem with any religion as at its core every major religion has a way of making this life more livable. If one removes this divide, then one enters nirvana

wondering

I have scanned many messages here on this forum, and Buddhism seems to be something different than and separate from everyday living.

That is indeed the problem with any religion as at its core every major religion has a way of making this life more livable. If one removes this divide, then one enters nirvana

It seems that in many cases religion complicates a persons life so much that people loose the ability to live it. Some people believe in religion so much that they study all kinds of scriptures about their particular religion all day, just so they can believe they have the REAL answers to life's unanswerable questions. That seems like a burden. When the teachings of these ancient folk like Buddha, and Christ get turned into dogma, life is not easier, it is a burden and quite unrealistic. Maybe mans need for meaning about the BIG questions lead to the formation of the ten thousand different "ways" the humankind has developed. Maybe it is just a phase that humans go through to find out their place in this universe. Living ones life without the teachings of any religion seems to be the preferred state of mind taught by these ancient teachers. It is those who need to have a teaching and leader that are drawn to the religions of the world. I do not think that Buddha had classes in Buddhism, or that Christ had churches that spelled out his name as the savior of mankind.

minue622

In my opinion, those debates on religious nature of buddhism arise partly because the notion of religion in the West is (for some historical-cultural reasons) quite Judae-Christian-Muslim centric one.

As one can see in buddhism and confucianism, religion without the notion of the omnipotent God with personality is not oxymoron, but just a normal form of religion.

vinlyn

Dictionary.com's definition of a religion:

re·li·gion   [ri-lij-uhn]
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

So, yes, it arguably is a religion. All-powerful deities are optional.

First, I agree with your conclusion.

We do all need to be aware that dictionaries, while an essential reference book in terms of the study of linguistics, are also probably only the most basic references available to us. And we need to remember that dictionaries are written by groups of men and women from one particular culture. American dictionaries are written by...for the most part...Americans, and include the prejudices (for good or bad) of the American mindset. In fact, that's what they're intended to do...define words as used by Americans. American and British dictionaries often differ, for example.

The debate about whether Buddhism is a religion or a philosophy is a debate among individual perspectives, not only cultural perspectives.

In terms of the discussion earlier in the thread, when living in Thailand I saw how Buddhism was lived on a daily basis within the population of the most Buddhist country in the world (95% of the citizenry calling themselves Buddhist). It was second nature to them, not something they often consciously thought about, not something they could necessarily express very well, and in fact their Buddhism was all tied up with animism and the worship of Hindu deities.

compassionate_warrior

This topic comes up on this forum every few months or so. Buddhism in the West often isn't considered a religion because in the West it often doesn't have any of the trappings of a religion. Many Westerners attend sanghas (if they attend one at all) that are in people's homes, and never see a temple or monastery, for example. They may never see a teacher in robes, if their teacher is a non-ordained Westerner or a Tibetan lay lama. Ritual in the sangha may be minimal, if there is any at all. And Westerners, being more intellectually oriented, tend to approach Buddhism first from an intellectual perspective. They don't have a tradition of ancestor worship, as some Asian countries do, which they combine with Buddhism, they don't have a tradition of polytheism, as the Tibetans do.

Western Buddhism tends to be devoid of most "religious" elements, and be reduced to its basic principles and practices. It's most often a secular Buddhism. This is why you may often hear Westerners speak of Buddhism as a philosophy, or psychology, rather than a religion.

MindGate

Sorry... I had to post this. Haha.

There is no need to try label Buddhism or describe what it is or anything. This pretty much describes Buddhism:

wondering

"Laughing all day, and laughing all night!" I guess that was the way for only three Buddhist monks to get to Nirvana. What about the rest of us who don't laugh all day and all night!? Where do we go?

wondering

Buddhism in the West often isn't considered a religion because in the West it often doesn't have any of the trappings of a religion.

I like your understanding of American Buddhism..... a question...
What do you mean by "any of the trappings of religion"? Are you saying that religion has traps that people get caught/stuck/habituated with? If that is true, can you see any trappings in the practice of American Buddhism?

compassionate_warrior

haha, I assume you're joking? Making a pun? I explained what are commonly considered the trappings or markers of religion in my post. 1) temple (church, synagogue), 2) spiritual leader wearing the robes of office, 3) belief in supernatural entities. One could add other: worship, for example. Worship isn't usually part of Western Buddhism.

Faith, now that's something many discussions here have been devoted to: whether "faith" is part of Buddhism practice. The conclusion members have reached before is that there is, indeed faith, but not in the sense of belief in a supernatural being or deity, as in religions that have one or more deities. "Faith" in Buddhism is simply having faith that the methods the Buddha outlined will bear the predicted fruit: a life free of suffering, and eventually, enlightenment.

wondering

OK is see that you did mention the "trappings" you were referring to in your post. No, it was a honest question, i am just rather slow at times.
Then there seems to be those who practice Buddhism as a religion with the trappings you mentioned in America, and those that do not. It is just ironic that the word "trappings" has a rather negative meaning, as if one would try to avoid them. I wonder why some people do not realize that the trappings are an impediment to their understanding of life and Buddhism itself?

riverflow

If certain rituals help one's practice, then what is the harm? If not having certain rituals help one's practice, then what is the harm? Those different approaches are not in themselves good or bad, as long as they help and not hinder. Practice ultimately depends on the practitioner, regardless of the approach.

compassionate_warrior

@wondering If the word "trappings" has a negative connotation, I wasn't aware of it. I didn't mean it that way. Sorry if it caused a misunderstanding. Yes, Buddhism is practiced both ways in the West: as a religion, and as a secular practice. Take your pick.

Again, I suspect that the reason the West tends to practice Buddhism secularly is the West's long tradition of living by logic and reason. Intuition, ancestor-worship or belief in spirits, healing and clairvoyance (the Tibetan oracles come to mind) were quashed during the Inquisition and subsequent Puritan movements and similar repressive movements that helped usher in the age of science.

I_AM_THAT

Just a quick question... Does it really matter? IMO... NO! Now continue on with the interesting banter.

Cosmic_Castaway

Possibly because many people in the West don't use dictionaries often enough...

Brilliant!

Dakini

In the past, most of our members have viewed Buddhism as a philosophy or psychology, when threads about this have been put up. But some have the opposite impression of our membership. I'd say the membership is changing so fast, with so many new members joining weekly, not to mention monthly, and a fair amount of turnover, that at this point, it's impossible to say if there's a dominant preference for Buddhism-as-religion, or Buddhism-as-secular-practice. If someone wants to start a thread to poll members, I think that could be interesting. (Not that it matters, but most of the topics on this forum don't "matter", and yet...the forum is still here! And people are enjoying it! Carry on, everyone.)

riverflow

84,000 ways...