Self-Confidence

MindGate

(Although this thread may be similar to a current one, I rather not hijack it.)

So, I hear people saying that self-confidence/self-esteem is a good thing (especially as a teenager) and whatnot.
I'm sure some of you guys have heard this many of times: "Don't let anybody tell you you're not attractive." or "Don't let anybody put you down for being who you want to be." and so forth.

I'm not sure if this is a wrong view of mine, but I kind of see that as empowering the ego. Its empowering who you think of as you. And as Buddhists, I thought we are supposed to transcend this stranglehold that the ego has on us - see beyond it, not be attached to it or give it power. Being "self-confident" seems like its doing the opposite of what we're trying to do.

So, whats your opinion?

Theswingisyellow

To give up self one has to know what one is giving up. To walk this path one has to have a good sense of who they are, their morals, their ethics and their direction. To walk the path of a Bodhisattva or Arahant requires tremendous strength of character, disciple and resolve. Having confidence in oneself and one's practice are prerequistes. Self confidence is not ego grasping or arrogance. This is my understanding.
All the best,
Todd

pain

Ajahn Braham also talked about how it's good to increase one's self-confidence. We don't give ourselves enough praises. Although there is a difference between self-confidence and arrogance.

Dakini

"Don't let anybody put you down for being who you want to be."

Everyone has their unique gifts through which they can make a positive contribution to the world. So this quote only means, don't fall under others' influence, be your own person, cultivate and use your unique talents. I recall seeing a comment on this board long ago that the Buddha was for the idea of everyone doing their best, being all they can be, to contribute to the world. Don't let anyone talk you out of your vision, if it's a grounded one. There's nothing egotistical about recognizing your gifts, and putting them to use to serve humanity, as long as you don't get attached to a view of yourself as gifted.

zenff

Ego can also have a negative, black side.
Some people take a twisted pride in being worthless.
The idea is something like”if I’m a real peace of shit, at least I am.”
This kind of negative “self-esteem” can be quite harmful.

Maybe you have to be very self-confident to be able to drop self-confidence.
You have to have a huge ego to be arrogant enough to drop your ego.

I’m not sure. I’m not an expert on the field. But I think some mechanism like that could be involved.

Makes sense?

driedleaf

Self-confidence is very necessary. What else would help us get up in the morning? But then there's also such a thing as being over self-confident, that's when we set ourselves up for disaster.

riverflow

This is from a blog post I wrote a couple weeks ago that the understanding of "self" in Buddhism is not merely psychological or merely moralistic. Self-esteem (a purely psychological issue) does not contradict the doctrine of anatman (which is an ontological issue). To realise the lack of inherent self in oneself is to simultaneously realise it in everything:

In first encountering Buddhism, one may come across the idea of “egolessness.” This notion results from a misunderstanding and mistranslation of the term anatman (“no-self” or not-self”), an idea central to Buddhist thought. Buddhism ends up sounding like some kind of self-loathing nihilism.

“To study the way of awakening is to study the self.” ~ Dogen, “Genjokoan”

It is crucial that one understands this from the very beginning: the term “self” (atman) and “no-self” (anatman) function as ontological, not psychological categories (though these terms may include the psychological). “Ego,” on the other hand, is a western term, referring to a reified psychological self. By confusing these two approaches, one’s entire understanding of Buddhism becomes skewered.

Self-effacement on purely psychological or moral grounds implies that there truly exists a reified, independent and self-subsisting ego and that this entity must be repressed and eliminated, while the rest of the entities in the world continue on their merry way.

There is an implicit opposition between this Cartesean ego and the world, a irreconcilable dualism. But this is not the realisation of no-self or emptiness (sunyata) at all—this is just a matter of beating yourself up psychologically, which is emotionally unhealthy and fraught with many dangers.

“To study the self is to forget the self.” ~ Dogen, “Genjokoan”

In a certain sense, there is no “self” get rid of because this notion of reified, independent entity was an illusion to begin with—no-self represents the realisation what one never possessed in the first place. This is not to say that one does not exist, but that the nature of this existence is relational, dependent and contingent upon everything else. Existence exists, but independent existence is illusory.

“To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away.” ~ Dogen, “Genjokoan”

Understanding no-self ontologically also leads to deeper implications: to realise no-self not only pertains to what we commonly refer to as “I” but also, at the same time, it is realised regarding all “selves”: people, birds, trees, rocks, stars, mountains, flowers, islands, etc. This is why the Buddha, upon awakening, said, “How marvelous, I, the great earth, and all beings are naturally and simultaneously awakened.” This realisation, in turn, becomes the basis for compassion for all beings.

In short, the realisation of the emptiness of self is a radical ontological re-orientation of one’s life which is directed toward oneself as well as the entire world. Self-inquiry naturally involves the cultivation of this new orientation.

https://riverflow0.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/self-inquiry

MindGate

You have to have a huge ego to be arrogant enough to drop your ego.

I’m not sure. I’m not an expert on the field. But I think some mechanism like that could be involved.

You can't drop your ego. Your thoughts, experiences, likes, dislikes, etc - they will always be part of you. They are inseparable. What I am saying is: I thought we weren't supposed to let the ego have power over us, and this seems like we would be letting it.

---

And just because someone doesn't go around saying "I'm a piece of shit" doesn't mean they are full of self-esteem. I don't go around saying that (often), but I also don't consider myself beaming with pride either. I'm kind of indifferent when I'm not swaying either way.

possibilities

It seems to me you are judging (your?) ego. What if ego is actually a positive element and supports positive views and actions? That's not so bad :-)... "Big" ego/ being overly confident OTOH is obviously not the middle way...

I'm not at all versed in this field, nor do I know how you define "ego" --- just playing with possibilities :-)

Beyond that, one needs to have confidence in one's theories and actions, best achieved by putting them to the test. Nothing wrong with that, IMO, and just common sense.

Dakini

You need confidence in yourself and your abilities in order to function in life, to have the gumption to suggest solutions to problems at work or at home, to believe in yourself enough to go to a job interview and give it your best shot, etc. Self-confidence is different from ego-clinging (unless it's over-confidence, which would be a form of ego-clinging). Ego isn't a bad word in Buddhism, though it's often mistaken for one. Ego-clinging is to be left behind on our way to Enlightenment.

Still_Waters

So, I hear people saying that self-confidence/self-esteem is a good thing (especially as a teenager) and whatnot.

Self-esteem is not always a good thing. It depends on what it's based on. If it's conditional, based on being a competent or "good" person, it can be a wobbly house of cards that can come crashing down when we fail to live up to our expectations for our self or expectations that have been put on us by others. Here is an interesting article that explores this and suggests an alternative:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/200809/the-path-unconditional-self-acceptance

A key concept in this article is that "cultivating self-acceptance requires that we develop more self-compassion." Compassion is a core value in Buddhism, and I believe that it is extremely important that we learn how to view ourselves, with all our warts and failings, compassionately and with loving-kindness. When we can do this, we develop unconditional self-esteem, which is essentially the esteem we should have for all living things.

Alan

Paradox

This is my take on it:

Self-esteem is our unconditional self worth. You are no better or worse than anyone else. You self worth does not change regardless of what other people think or say about you. Maybe you are unattractive, and maybe your aspiration to build the first sushi bar on the moon really is silly, but that doesn't change your inherent worth.

Then there is pride/arrogance. This is the domain of the ego and is often a substitute for real self-esteem. Pride is comparative and tries to convince us that we are either better or worse than others. For that reason pride is conditional on what others think of us, or at least on how we compare to them. When someone tells us we're not good enough, it's our pride that gets offended and defensive and has to reassert it's sense of worth - often by putting the other person down in kind or proving them wrong somehow.

MindGate

This is my take on it:

Self-esteem is our unconditional self worth. You are no better or worse than anyone else. You self worth does not change regardless of what other people think or say about you. Maybe you are unattractive, and maybe your aspiration to build the first sushi bar on the moon really is silly, but that doesn't change your inherent worth.

Perfect description. That is the kind of self-esteem that is good.

taiyaki

arrogance and confidence. know the difference.
one comes from complete ignorance and insecurity.
one comes from complete wisdom and an overflow.

confidence has nothing to prove nor does it expect anything.

DhammaDhatu

So, whats your opinion?

Self-confidence is a mundane aspect of the path. It is related to metta for yourself. It is also a reflection that one is practising the path well and thus free of regrets & remorse

MindGate

This is my take on it:

Self-esteem is our unconditional self worth. You are no better or worse than anyone else. You self worth does not change regardless of what other people think or say about you. Maybe you are unattractive, and maybe your aspiration to build the first sushi bar on the moon really is silly, but that doesn't change your inherent worth.

Then there is pride/arrogance. This is the domain of the ego and is often a substitute for real self-esteem. Pride is comparative and tries to convince us that we are either better or worse than others. For that reason pride is conditional on what others think of us, or at least on how we compare to them. When someone tells us we're not good enough, it's our pride that gets offended and defensive and has to reassert it's sense of worth - often by putting the other person down in kind or proving them wrong somehow.

I must confuse these two. When I think of "self-esteem," I see it as arrogance. The way you portray self-esteem is more of an indifference, a neutrality.

Epicurus

Remember you don't want to get rid of the ego, you merely want to stop identifying with it.

You can be arrogant as you wish, as long as you aware of such arrogance. I think that for it to all make sense, it might not make much difference if you seek comfort in a certain kind of image for yourself as long as you aware of it. The awareness of it, strips it of it's power, and also makes you (the one who is aware) less dependent on self-image.

Because at the end of the day, self-esteem, self-confidence, self-whatever....is really a question of self-image. It doesn't matter what that image is...as long as you are aware that you are IMAGEning it. :P

MindGate

Remember you don't want to get rid of the ego, you merely want to stop identifying with it.

You can be arrogant as you wish, as long as you aware of such arrogance. I think that for it to all make sense, it might not make much difference if you seek comfort in a certain kind of image for yourself as long as you aware of it. The awareness of it, strips it of it's power, and also makes you (the one who is aware) less dependent on self-image.

Because at the end of the day, self-esteem, self-confidence, self-whatever....is really a question of self-image. It doesn't matter what that image is...as long as you are aware that you are IMAGEning it. :P

:clap: