Statement of HHDL on the Issue of His Reincarnation

Mountains

http://dalailama.com/messages/tibet/reincarnation-statement

Dakini

Wow, how did you come across this, Mts? he really covers a lot of ground, here, including discussion of theory of rebirth vs. non-rebirth (kind of making our squabbles on the subject here look childish and silly). So much information, so many textual references, it's like a seminar on the tulku system. And he's very frank about the system being misused by some (which rumors have been circulating in the West for years) for political ends. It's an amazing document, thank you!

So in the end, he still hasn't decided whether he'll be reborn or not. Still fence-sitting. Of course, much is at stake, so it's a difficult decision. But it's obvious what they Chinese will do, regardless of whether the DL decides to reincarnate or not. It's obvious, because they've already done it with the Panchen Lama--appoint a fake.

So sad. So samsaric.

Mountains

It was on his Facebook page.

Yes, the Chinese are really good at fake. Everything.

Dakini

!! The DL is on Facebook! He's way ahead of me, he must have a really good PR Dept.

thickpaper

http://dalailama.com/messages/tibet/reincarnation-statement

I have read lots of HHDL's books, he has always seemed agnostic on the rebirth issue. This seem's certain from the great man. Quite strange to read, to me.

Cinorjer

It's a political document, so it's very carefully written so there can be no claim after his death that "Well, what he really meant was this..."

It is a fine summation of the history and philosopy behind the Tibetan reincarnation practice. I'm afraid it covers no new ground, and those of us who reject literal reincarnation have the same objections. To each their own. It really makes no difference.

caz

High lama's alway end up in the right place to benefit others. With HH Panchen Lama he is reputed to be an emanation of Amitabha Buddha himself so I wouldnt be so certain to say he is a fake.

DhammaDhatu

he really covers a lot of ground, here, including discussion of theory of rebirth vs. non-rebirth (kind of making our squabbles on the subject here look childish and silly).

to me, HHDL sounds childish and silly

HHDL speaks contraversially in stating: "the complete teaching of the Buddha"

however HHDL speaks truely in stating: "Tibetan tradition"

the Hinduism HHDL is imparting here is very sad & an obstactle to those interested in enlightenment

but for children...yes...it can have benefit to allay their fears & support their hopes

:-/

DhammaDhatu

So in the end, he still hasn't decided whether he'll be reborn or not. So sad. So samsaric.

HHDL can do nothing to cause "himself" to be reborn...what non-sense

the Lamas can simply gamble on choosing a boy and hoping he works out (unlike the wooden unenlightened Gyalwa Karmapa)

yes...so sad...so samsaric...so superstitious

HHDL said: "as long as you are a Buddhist, it is necessary to accept past and future rebirth"

what absolute non-sense

all things have no inherent existence. they cannot be "re" born

Dakini

I'm afraid it covers no new ground, and those of us who reject literal reincarnation have the same objections.

I think it covers new ground in that he admits upfront what some have been alleging for years, namely that the tulku system, the practice of choosing the right child, is and has been politically corrupt. Recently I read that the current Panchen Lama (now sequestered in China) achieved his position by virtue of the fact that the other 3 candidates died. He was not at all the first choice.

DhammaDhatu

I think it covers new ground in that he admits upfront what some have been alleging for years, namely that the tulku system, the practice of choosing the right child, is and has been politically corrupt.

this just simply demonstrates to whole thing is a sham

how could the system of "choosing" be corrupt if the reincarnation was a real reincarnation?

the embarrassment of choosing the Spanish boy as Lama Yeshe's reincarnation is something the Tibetans will really want to avoid

:dunce:

DhammaDhatu

High lama's alway end up in the right place to benefit others. With HH Panchen Lama he is reputed to be an emanation of Amitabha Buddha himself so I wouldnt be so certain to say he is a fake.

Gayatso appointed a number of (sexual misconduct) duds to lead the NKT

it is simply gambling

that the current HHDL turned out to be a winner was mere luck

roll the dice again...spin the roulett wheel again... :rolleyes:

DhammaDhatu

...whether the DL decides to reincarnate...

i have heard the Tibetans believe the bardo can prolong its rebirth for many days and can choose its parents

if so, if HHDL wishes to reincarnate in the right conditions, he could do so

as HHDL said: "Therefore, the person who reincarnates has sole legitimate authority over where and how he or she takes rebirth and how that reincarnation is to be recognized"

if that is the case, then why bring up the matter of the Chinese?

if HHDL chose to do so, he could reincarnate in San Francisco or in Washington DC

:rolleyes:

Jeffrey

Before we decide if HHDL can reincarnate.... Let us first establish what a sentient being is.

DhammaDhatu

google: 'Satta Sutta'

the Buddha said sentient beings are like children who like to play building sand castles

similarly, the Tibetan sentient beings liked to build palaces & sand mandalas



'A being,' lord. 'A being,' it's said. To what extent is one said to be 'a being'?

Any desire, passion, delight or craving for the five aggregates, Radha: when one is caught up there, tied up there, one is said to be 'a being'

Just as when boys or girls are playing with little sand castles: as long as they are not free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever & craving for those little sand castles, that's how long they have fun with those sand castles, enjoy them, treasure them, feel possessive of them. But when they become free from passion, desire, love, thirst, fever & craving for those little sand castles, then they smash them, scatter them, demolish them with their hands or feet and make them unfit for play.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn23/sn23.002.than.html

Dakini

if that is the case, then why bring up the matter of the Chinese?

if HHDL chose to do so, he could reincarnate in San Francisco or in Washington DC

The DL has, in fact, on numerous occasions said he would probably reincarnate in the West (if he reincarnates). For all we know, he may have his eye on San Francisco, but if I were a Tibetan, I'd pick Switzerland, where there are lots of mountains and a large Tibetan community. Not to mention the UN human rights agencies, in Geneva. The matter of the Chinese is brought up for obvious reasons.

The Spanish boy wasn't the first "tulku mistake" in Tibetan history, there have been others, one of the most recent ones being Gesar Mukpo, one of Chogyam Trungpa's sons, who renounced his tulkuship some years ago. Gedun Choepel, who lived in the first half of the 20th Century also renounced his tulkuship, saying, like the Spanish boy, that he was "living a lie". There have probably been more cases that we haven't heard about.

Dakini

@Thickpaper Stephen Batchelor, who studied with the Dalai Lama, agrees with your observation, that the DL does not require belief in rebirth. He notes, the Dalai Lama "dismisses traditional cosmology as invalidated by science, and questions the need for belief in rebirth (while stating that ultimately meditation will lead to conviction about it)". This passage is in the introduction to an essay on a different topic, but if you'd like to see it, here it is:

www.westernchanfellowship.org/shaping-the-future.html.

caz

For Tulkus they can be a gamble there are some very good teachers whom have been recognised but it is always good to have plenty of meditative experience and scholarly knowledge when teaching, These are the best teachers.

DhammaDhatu

all i can say is for many sincere Buddhist practitioners, the article by HHDL is alien

as usual, HHDL needs to take care with the words he speaks, acting as though he is the owner, spokesperson & 'Pope" of the entirety of Buddhism

despite the embarrassing nature of HHDL's speech, sincere Buddhist practitioners are well practised in non-attachment & truth discerning wisdom

in reality, his words are just mere sense objects; just phenomena

:om:

seeker242

So in the end, he still hasn't decided whether he'll be reborn or not. So sad. So samsaric.

HHDL can do nothing to cause "himself" to be reborn...what non-sense

So other traditions, besides your own, are nonsense? Hmm, that's interesting... Isn't that called "sect bashing"? Hmm, yea...

DhammaDhatu

So other traditions, besides your own, are nonsense? Hmm, that's interesting... Isn't that called "sect bashing"?

no...it is stating there is no evidence HHDL can undertake a rebirth of himself...

thickpaper

@Thickpaper Stephen Batchelor, who studied with the Dalai Lama, agrees with your observation, that the DL does not require belief in rebirth. He notes, the Dalai Lama "dismisses traditional cosmology as invalidated by science, and questions the need for belief in rebirth (while stating that ultimately meditation will lead to conviction about it)". This passage is in the introduction to an essay on a different topic, but if you'd like to see it, here it is:

www.westernchanfellowship.org/shaping-the-future.html.

Thank you:)

seeker242

So other traditions, besides your own, are nonsense? Hmm, that's interesting... Isn't that called "sect bashing"?

no...it is stating there is no evidence HHDL can undertake a rebirth of himself...

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.