Buddism and mental illness?

jmeff

I started to love Buddhism as a young teen. It was 'the way' for me. I was going to devout my life to meditation. Unfortunately at about 19 years old I developed debilitating depression as well as ptsd.

When I tried to return to meditation, it was no longer comforting but spooky. It would leave me more depressed and feel even more insane. I turned to alcohol and drugs which lead to a long strange, scary road of suffering.

Now that i'm in recovery, I'm trying to develop my spirituality again. But the Buddhism doesn't work for me anymore.

I feel filled with guilt and shame that I can't meditate. My depression worsens when I think I can't improve my spiritual condition. I get annoying confused when thinking about Buddhist philosophy.

I'm not sure what to do. I feel like i'm just a big ball of confusion with no way out.

Jeffrey

Maybe the meditation was not making you sick? You could have been already sick and the alcohol and drugs hurt you.

I have a lot of compassion for you pain. I don't want to say anything trite. This feeling of wanting things to be better is coming from the right place. Wanting meditation as an object *may be just a craving hoping to fulfill this feeling.

I recommend when you feel a pleasure, a gust of wind, or whatever. This is the wish for freedom from suffering. Link in to the freedom and whispiness of the niceness.

If you don't ever feel nice I am sorry just know that there are others who are suffering too and we do our practice for all beings..

ddrishi

Detach Buddha, Buddhism and spiritualism from meditation, and it will work. Just meditate. This will be true Buddhist way to deal with the situation.

shanyin

I have a similar story and feel similar according to your description.

I think I agree with ddrishi.

Doctors told me I had debilitating depression and so called pro-drome pychosis and meditation has never been seemingly the same.

Were you medicated?

I seriously hope for the best for you, with love peace.

jmeff

I tried to meditate many many many times. I wish it worked I really do.
Yes I'm on medication now.

Could this be a result of bad karma.......

Is it okay to try other spiritual practices?

If I never find peace in this life time, will there be other chances?

Jeffrey

meditation is what it is. you have an idea of it 'working'.. instead what about noticing with freshenss what *IS* happening in your meditaiotn? Get interested in your experience in teh here and now rather than in other lifetimes and other more fortunate people. you have your story, and you can have a noble practice. every time you fall you haven't failed. just dust yourself off and keep at it.

jmeff

thats what kills me. I can't meditate, and whenever i try to tell people that they just say 'keep doing it'. I've tried and tried and tried.

I feel inferior or weak and filled with guilt and shame b/c i can't meditate.

I know I read somewhere that meditation for the mentally ill isn't always advisable b/c it can make them worse.

there has to be a spiritual practice i can do......

Jeffrey

try walking meditation. just notice the body sensations. or try slowly lifting your hands like tai chi... very slowly with your finger tips dragging then to the top and the finger tips dragging the other way..

jmeff

ya Jeffrey, I was thinking about tai chi or something. I bet I could probably do that.....

thank you

Jeffrey

you could even try a cup of chai tea I'd love to beam you one!

jmeff

lol....thanks

I watched a video with the Dali, he was saying how there are so many different spiritual paths because ppl have different needs. Thats why the Buddha had different paths in his own philosophy.

Something like that......I'm paraphrasing.

shays860

What type of meditation have you been trying to do?

Ada_B

I think Tai Chi might be a very helpful way of getting into meditation again. I also wonder if mantras or some other form of meditation that involves 'doing' something might be helpful.

Do explore what helps you.

Epicurus

Don't try to "fix" whatever you are dealing with. If you are dealing with "problems" in the mind...you won't be able to use it to cure itself. Don't overemphasize the idea of meditation. Meditation is not the holy grail.

I would suggest trying to improve your body's health before your mind's health. What is the smallest change you could possibly do today for your body to feel more healthy? Getting a massage to relax? Jogging to alleviate some stress or getting some energy? Eating less junk food and/or more healthy food? Getting enough sleep?

Seriously, spirituality isn't some pie in the sky. Spirituality is about satisfying certain needs. But it doesn't mean Buddhism is gone cure all your problems. If you are a hungry kid with no food to eat you are not gonna be helped by exploring Buddhism.

Don't see Buddhism as the magic pill to all your problems. It's not. It's whatever ACTUALLY works that will help. So be kind to yourself. And don't be afraid to ask people close to you for help if you can. And take care of your body, and it will take care of you and your feelings and your thoughts. Oh and watch or play something funny! Humor is good for you.

iamlakota

depression will do that to you... try reading The Zen Path Through Depression by Philip Martin... it helped me tremendously... eating right, taking a common sense approach to supplementation and exercising are definitely advisable... good luck on your path...

Kensho

gimta

@jmeff

I can only speak from my own experience: It appears to me that you focus too much on (formal) meditation. What helped me to overcome depression was *relentless effort* to get rid of unwholesome behaviour (as pointed out by the Buddha). One has to see the danger in the slightest faults, reminding oneself of what is right and what is wrong again and again - and then giving one's best to live accordingly. Unless this hurdle is overcome, no further progress is possible. This is not about being perfect right from the start, but the effort has to be there all the time. This is my advise to you, based on my own experience.

Of course, there is more to be done, but it cannot be done without this kind of effort.

All the best!

tmottes

I deal with on and off depression myself. It got pretty bad there for a while. There wasn't just one thing that helped me start my journey out of the depression and I still deal with minor bouts of depression, but never like before. You need to find the thing that does work for you, and it might be more than one. For me it was a deep realization or insight, not just an activity or drug. For some people, that imbalance is too strong and medication offers a chance to get on top, but don't let it become a crutch. Remember your goal is to no feel depressed on your own. DO NOT ever stop/reduce meditations without consulting your Dr, as many times this will lead to some serious side effects.

Exercise does wonders for depression, I would start there. If you don't like to go to the gym, try finding a martial art you like, try hiking or swimming. Another thing that helps me, is to focus on helping others. I always used to say that depression was a very selfish view on life and that when I was helping others, I wasn't caught up in that view. Its not about comparing your life to anybody else's to make yourself feel better, but it is about making other people's lives better because you know what it feels like to suffer. Intention is important so make sure you aren't around less fortunate people just to make yourself feel better (to me that is no different than calling people names to feel better about yourself). Maybe you could combine exercise and volunteer work. Help cleanup somebody's yard, start a running club for at-risk-youth, etc. The sky is the limit.

Oh and if you want to still go down the meditation path at this point (which it sounds like a decent break couldn't hurt), remember you are recovering and lots of strange things may come up from meditation. There is no goal in meditation. It is like watching the movie in which you are an actor. Sometimes you might just watch your mind go spastic and jump from thought to thought. Watch that. Sometimes you might fall asleep. Watch that. Meditation is nothing more than learning to control your attention/focus and is very much like learning to play an instrument. You won't just pick up a guitar and play it the first time. You will have to listen and watch others first. Well in meditation there is no other, just you. So you watch yourself and you will learn.

Ada_B

I went to my first Tai Chi lesson this morning. I was pretty hopeless, but my teacher (who was also my karate teacher) is very patient. Besides, Rome wasn't built in a day. I feel it will be very helpful to me.

It was interesting to realise that my meditation practice has improved so that now getting into a meditative (relaxed but aware) state is relatively easy for me. That was gratifying - I remember a time when I thought meditation was impossible for me.

Chiisai_Pholcidae68

@jmeff, the mind can only handle so much at once. If you have these illnesses, your brain is probably completely exhausted. Do what works for you, what is best for you.

shanyin

My friend, I am sort of where you are now. When I started I meditated and became calm rather quickly and enjoyed it. Then I had a period of drugs and was diagnosed. Now I think I'm in a similar boat as you and it's tough for me because it doesn't seem to work anymore. One thing that I might be doing wrong is not doing it everyday, the same meditation.

While it seems I cannot do this meditation to the effect of 'sustaining the feeling of loving kindness' and learning to be able to do that at this point in my life, metta meditation sometimes calms me in a way I may have forgotten I could be and can be a pleasant inspiring meditation in my life now. I have a mind that races and never stops talking to itself but I enjoy it anyway usually.

shanyin

If you're going to try it or any other meditation like Tai Chi, I reccommend doing it everyday.

Tosh

jmeff,

If you have an alcohol problem, why not give A.A. a shout? It's a spiritual path in itself - it's a 12 Step program. Don't let the word 'God' put you off, we have many atheists/agnostics who do the program without a problem.

It can be quite challenging too; it's not for the faint hearted. We have to take a good look at ourselves, investigate our past by examining our resentments, harms done to others, and fears. We put this on paper and discuss it with another (trusted) human being. We have to make amends to those we've harmed (very tough for me). We have to practise mindfulness (Step 10), meditation (Step 11) and practise compassion (Step 12). Mindfulness, meditation, and practising compassion sounds very Buddhist to me; but A.A. has these elements as it's 'daily program'.

It's like Buddhism in many ways.

And really, meditation is for when we have some semblance of peace of mind; that's why in A.A. Step 11 (meditation) is Step 11, and not step 1 or 2. Maybe that's why you had problems with it? I'm pretty sure Buddhism says the same about meditation and needing some peace of mind to begin with, so ethical practise should come first (or something like that).

Also, depression and alcoholism/drugging often go hand-in-hand. Feelings are both conditioned and conditioning.

Just a few thoughts; if I'm off beam; please accept my apologies.

Tosh

Posted in error. I aint been drinking; honest guv.

riverflow

I feel inferior or weak and filled with guilt and shame b/c i can't meditate.

NO. There is no reason to feel guilt or shame. Ever. This just exacerbates the anxiety, like chinese handcuffs. Don't be hard on yourself like that. You are already a Buddha. The question is only how will you REAL-ise this in your life.

there has to be a spiritual practice i can do......

YES. You just haven't discovered the key yet. In Buddhism it is said there are 84,000 gateways to practice. Perhaps you are not ready for sitting meditation yet-- maybe never, who knows? BUT... there is tai chi, qigong, various martial arts, chanting, walking meditation, playing the shakuhachi or some other meditative musical instrument, gardening, haiku, calligraphy, art-- all sorts of valid ways of focusing attention. There are also many different kinds of sitting meditation.

Don't beat yourself up about it. You're still exploring, and that's the most important thing for you right now.

Dakini

jmeff, there's no rule that says you have to meditate, or that if you don't, you're not a buddhist. There's so much more to Buddhism: mindfulness (notice your thoughts and emotions as they arise throughout the day, no meditation necessary), the precepts, kindness.

I've noticed over the last year here, that some members have said that meditation brings up painful memories, emotions or experiences from the past. It opens a gateway to things they're not ready to deal with. So you're not alone in experiencing a downside to meditation. So ... try some of the alternatives suggested here. And now and then throughout the day, remember to breathe--deep slow breaths to bring your attention to the present--and you'll be off to a good start.

Good luck.
(I assume you got effective treatment for the PTSD? That is absolutely key!)

cabossimn

this is a rather nice question for my "self" to answer and also myself. you see i have a lot of mental illness i call the cocktail that i have a combo breaker. lol. any way i do take medicine for it but if we get to the heart of buddhism it was made to free us from that pain of the world and of the self you spiritualy have no problems. its the "self" that has the problem. your "self" is your worldly mind that voice in your head telling you to do this and that saying i want the bigger peice of cake because ive had a long day. you should think ill take the smalller peice so tthat yes i get some but i leave more for others because theyve had long days aswell. the meditation isnt working not because of the meditation but because you harbor that "self" you love it you need it. but when you are meditating the idea isnt to not think its to nit have an oppinion its to say yeah that thought is there so what im not going to judge it because when you judge things you let them affect you which brings you out of stillness. although"i" desperatly want to stay "awake" at all times i should let go of that and just say well if i sleep cool if not cool. this is how we become enlightend and through enlightenment comes nirvana. this is how it is. hope this helped peace love and kind ness be with you.

BeachHouseGuy

Exercise is a great anti depressant.

Glow

Don't try to "fix" whatever you are dealing with. If you are dealing with "problems" in the mind...you won't be able to use it to cure itself. Don't overemphasize the idea of meditation. Meditation is not the holy grail.

I would suggest trying to improve your body's health before your mind's health. What is the smallest change you could possibly do today for your body to feel more healthy? Getting a massage to relax? Jogging to alleviate some stress or getting some energy? Eating less junk food and/or more healthy food? Getting enough sleep?

Seriously, spirituality isn't some pie in the sky. Spirituality is about satisfying certain needs. But it doesn't mean Buddhism is gone cure all your problems. If you are a hungry kid with no food to eat you are not gonna be helped by exploring Buddhism.

Don't see Buddhism as the magic pill to all your problems. It's not. It's whatever ACTUALLY works that will help. So be kind to yourself. And don't be afraid to ask people close to you for help if you can. And take care of your body, and it will take care of you and your feelings and your thoughts. Oh and watch or play something funny! Humor is good for you.

As someone who suffered from depression that was quite stubborn and prone to relapse, I actually think @Epicurus makes a wonderful point. Four years ago, I used a meditation-based therapy initially to help with depression (Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy). It seemed to help quite a bit initially. However, a few years down the road I realized that I simply had to step out of my own mind more, and meditation had become more of a distraction than a remedy: there's a point where mind-based approaches (meditation, therapy, etc.) actually stir up depressed thinking patterns, rather than remedy them. Studies have shown that behavior and lifestyle-based approaches to depression are actually more effective in the long run.

There's a wonderfully refreshing book that was published recently called The Depression Cure by Dr. Stephen Ilardi of the University of Kansas. I found it a wonderful counterpoint to all of the introspective work I emphasized in my Buddhist practice. You can read a very good summary of its main points here.