Buddhanature

Theswingisyellow

I am sure it has been discussed ad naseum but just a quick question:
it is said that we all have Buddhanature, that if only we wipe the dust out our eyes we can see our true selves.
How can anything be inherently good (which Buddhanature implies) or for that matter inherently bad?
Is this true self just another concept, another form of "I" or "mine" making.
I personally don't believe we are inherently anything, our choices determine our consequences, we can choose to be Ghandi or Hitler or somewhere in between.
I would also suggest that there is no "true self", a self to find or become. This "I" is simply a mental construct.
I wonder what others think?

Talisman

I agree with you and so does the Buddha.

The idea that all beings have potential for attaining enlightenment is a novel concept. However, to say that all beings "will" attain enlightenment is not something that is stated by the Buddha.

"And, Master Gotama, when having directly known it, you teach the Dhamma to your disciples for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding, will all the cosmos be led [to release], or a half of it, or a third?"

When this was said, the Blessed One was silent.

Then the thought occurred to Ven. Ananda: "Don't let Uttiya the wanderer acquire the evil viewpoint that, 'When I asked him an all-encompassing question, Gotama the contemplative faltered and didn't reply. Perhaps he was unable to.' That would be for his long-term harm & suffering." So he said to Uttiya, "In that case, my friend, I will give you an analogy, for there are cases where it is through the use of analogy that intelligent people can understand the meaning of what is being said.

"Uttiya, suppose that there were a royal frontier fortress with strong ramparts, strong walls & arches, and a single gate. In it would be a wise, competent, & knowledgeable gatekeeper to keep out those he didn't know and to let in those he did. Patrolling the path around the city, he wouldn't see a crack or an opening in the walls big enough for even a cat to slip through. Although he wouldn't know that 'So-and-so many creatures enter or leave the city,' he would know this: 'Whatever large creatures enter or leave the city all enter or leave it through this gate.'

"In the same way, the Tathagata isn't concerned with whether all the cosmos or half of it or a third of it will be led to release by means of that [Dhamma]. But he does know this: 'All those who have been led, are being led, or will be led [to release] from the cosmos have done so, are doing so, or will do so after having abandoned the five hindrances — those defilements of awareness that weaken discernment — having well-established[1] their minds in the four frames of reference, and having developed, as they have come to be, the seven factors for Awakening. When you asked the Blessed One this question, you had already asked it in another way.[2] That's why he didn't respond."

AN 10.95

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an10/an10.095.than.html

aMatt

How can anything be inherently good (which Buddhanature implies) or for that matter inherently bad?

I think the error is in the implication, which is why I've never been a huge fan of buddhanature. You could say that an acorn has a treenature, becaue it has the potential to become a tree, with proper conditions. This doesn't imply an acorn or tree is good or bad, or that an acorn is actually a tree in hiding... simply that conditions of the acorn can ripen into the conditions of a tree.

Buddha spoke of the pontential of the mind to become clear. Not that the mind has a clear self hiding under the chaos. That perception of a "clear self+ obscured" is just more obscurity. There are only conditions... and when you clear away the obscurity, there still are only conditions, but they are clear.

Gui

I wonder what others think?

I agree with OP. To me buddhanature is emptyness plus the potential to realize emptyness.

Cloud

Buddha-nature does not imply anything about good or bad, it simply says that we are all "empty" (of self), but that we do not yet see it. It's not about a "true self" either... there is no self whatsoever (Anatta, all phenomena whatsoever are Not-Self), it's about realizing that this idea of a self that we have, as subtle as it may be, is just a mis-perception.

taiyaki

buddha nature is the potential in all things to awaken to what is.

what is, is what is. reality as it is. thusness. just this.

buddha nature doesn't imply a new larger self or a seperate entity called self. it is seeing clearly and seeing what self really is. just another constantly changing process that we place a label ontop of.

clear the ignorance and you see clearly.

Ada_B

@taiyaki Thank you for explaining it better than I could.

To me, practically, Buddhanature is about recognising the potential for even the most annoying and ignorant to become Enlightened. But just as not all acorns get to grow into oak trees (some end up as squirrel food), maybe not all sentient beings will one day grow into Buddhas. But there is always that hope.

taiyaki

lol i try to see the buddha nature in everyone. keyword is try.
it really helps with being compassionate, even though people can be awful at times.
we fall and fall but keep trying and trying.

jmeff

i think given enough life times everyone becomes a Buddha. I think its just inevitable. You can't avoid the truth forever.

Jeffrey

Buddha nature is emptiness. So all good qualities can arise from it. The reason it is good is that the natural four noble truths are imbedded in reality. We naturally wish to be happy and because the buddha nature is empty that is possible.

The jewel ornament of liberation, the lam rim (gradual path) text for the karma kagyu school of tibetan buddhism, states that the buddha nature is emptiness. It means that all beings are in one of the five families of buddha and thus can become enlightened. Some take a long time The dharmakaya truth of emptiness and awakening to liberation radiates to all beings and does not regard some as high and some as low. The awakening is to realize that sense pleasures etc are not objects to possess etc..

When the phenomenal world of sense pleasures, forms, and formless are penetrated as non-self there is peace and liberation.

SeaOfTranquility

I think the teaching is that everyone has Buddha Nature.

To me this means that the only thing one must do to find freedom, peace, nirvana, is awaken to the fact that you already have it.

What prevents us from realizing our Buddha Nature and therefore stuck in samasra is the belief that we exist as a separate and permanent self. All delusions and desires for things to be other than what they are revolve around this belief. Seeing for yourself that everything is impermanent, ultimately unsatisfactory, and empty allows the mind to let go of this attachment to an imaginary self and Buddha Nature to be realized.

Spaceless

You are a white paper, while your choices determined consequences, whichever consequences are drafted on the white piece of paper, it can be erased away. However, the white paper remained purely white. :clap:

seeker242

Buddha Nature is what is left after greed, hate and ignorance are removed.

Theswingisyellow

Thanks for all the insightful posts and replies! :clap:
"If you assume a Buddha nature, you not only risk complacency but you also entangle yourself in metaphysical thorn patches: If something with an awakened nature can suffer, what good is it? How could something innately awakened become defiled? If your original Buddha nature became deluded, what's to prevent it from becoming deluded after it's re-awakened"?

Also:

"So instead of making assumptions about innate natures or inevitable outcomes, the Buddha advised exploring the possibility of freedom as it's immediately present each time you make a choice. Freedom is not a nature, and you don't find it by looking for your hidden innate nature. You find freedom by looking at where it's constantly showing itself: in the fact that your present intentions are not totally conditioned by the past. You catch your first glimmer of it as a range of possibilities from which you can choose and as your ability to act more skillfully — causing more pleasure and less pain — than you ordinarily might. Your sense of this freedom grows as you explore and exercise it, each time you choose the most skillful course of action heading in the direction of discernment, truthfulness, relinquishment, and peace. The choice to keep making skillful choices may require assumptions, but to keep the mind focused on the issue of fabrication the Buddha saw that these assumptions are best kept to a bare minimum: that the mind wants happiness, that it can choose courses of actions that promote happiness or thwart it, that it can change its ways, and that it can train itself to achieve the ultimate happiness where all fabrications fall away".
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/freedomfrombuddhanature.html

For me this just seems way more straight forward and practical. It makes so much sense, it is staring me in the face. The reason I asked this question regarding Buddhanature is that Buddhism,having been around for so long has multiple ideas and interpretations that sit side by side with one another. It can be quite confusing, I'm not exactly new to Buddhism and it still cathes me, makes me stop and question all the time. I guess that is a good thing. As of late we had a thread on duality/non-duality and this stopped me in my tracks, having assumed the non-duality (I also assumed Buddhanature)of existence but in the final analysis murder is not loving-kindness and in the end it is our actions and intentions that truely define things, at least for myself. Thanks for helping me to distill my views a little. What a wonderful path.
Blessings to all of you,
Todd