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Love without attachment. Possesivness or Love? Take some time please =).
StoicBuddhistAlex
Veteran
Hello people i will like to know what you think about love.
Ill use the example of two lovers.
Lets say you meet this amazing women(or man if you are a girl or homosexual). You both have great love for each other but then things start chaging. She wants to see other people. The she goes on her own. Would you still be friends with her and love her?
If the women you love have sex with another person would you be mad or still love her becouse you know you cant control her like an object?
Its love something to be directed or its something that should eradiate from you?
I see that many people is jelous and want to control their couple and they get broken hearts when their lover dosent want them anymore.
Ill quote this buddhist site: http://viewonbuddhism.org/attachment.html
- "Love with attachment consists of waves of emotion, usually creating invisible iron chains." Ordinary love tends to create bonds that may turn very unpleasant.
- Ordinary love is based on selfishness: attraction to others because they help us.
- Ordinary love is often based on opinions like beauty and status, which may be quite irrelevant or even obstacles for being able to live happily together with the person.
- Exaggeration and projection are the main reasons that ordinary love leads to disappointments. To illustrate this some words from M. Scott Peck on "ordinary love":
"The myth of romantic love is a dreadful lie. Perhaps it is a necessary lie in that it assures the 'falling in love'- experience that traps us into marriage. But as a psychiatrist I weep in my heart almost daily for the ghastly confusion and suffering that this myth fosters. Millions of people waste vast amounts of energy desperately in an attempt to make the reality of their lives conform to the unreality of the myth."
- "Being in love" may be a very exciting emotional condition, but is it really happiness, or is it often mixed with a fair amount of suffering?
- Attachment gives us the feeling of: How can this relationship fulfil MY needs? Real love would ask: What can I do for the OTHER?
- Attachment based on selfishness: if you are good to me, I am good to you. Altruistic love is based on equanimity: one realises that others are like me and want happiness. It is wishing others to be happy just because they exist.
- Attachment leads to possessiveness: MY husband, MY wife, MY friend, MY family. Did you ever realise that we cannot own people, unless you believe in slavery? Possessiveness leads to FEAR of losing, fake affection out of fear, overprotection, craving, jealousy or even the feeling: I can't live without her/him/my car/my cat/chocolate/pizzas/my job/my jewellery/my music....
- Is the perfection we think to see in the loved one really there, or do we simply close our eyes for the negative qualities?
- Is the perfection we are looking for achievable? An old Sufi tale as illustration:
"One afternoon, Nasruddin and his friend were sitting in a cafe, drinking tea and talking about life and love. His friend asked: 'How come you never married?'
'Well,' said Nasruddin, 'to tell you the truth, I spend my youth looking for the perfect woman. In Cairo I met a beautiful and intelligent woman, but she was unkind. Then in Baghdad, I met a woman who was a wonderful and generous soul, but we had no common interests. One woman after another would seem just right, but there would always be something missing. Then one day, I met her; beautiful, intelligent, generous and kind. We had very much in common. In fact, she was perfect!'
'So, what happened?' asked Nasruddin's friend, 'Why didn't you marry her?'
Nasruddin sipped his tea reflectively. 'Well,' he replied, 'it's really the sad story of my life.... It seemed that she was looking for the perfect man...' "
To summarise: our own projections, selfish expectations and exaggerations are the foundations of attachment and the unavoidable disappointment.
We want to get love, rather than give love.
We seek understanding, rather than trying to understand.
We seek self-confidence, rather than respecting others.
We seek praise and encouragement, rather than giving praise and encouragement .
We don't like criticism, but like to criticise others.
Ill use the example of two lovers.
Lets say you meet this amazing women(or man if you are a girl or homosexual). You both have great love for each other but then things start chaging. She wants to see other people. The she goes on her own. Would you still be friends with her and love her?
If the women you love have sex with another person would you be mad or still love her becouse you know you cant control her like an object?
Its love something to be directed or its something that should eradiate from you?
I see that many people is jelous and want to control their couple and they get broken hearts when their lover dosent want them anymore.
Ill quote this buddhist site: http://viewonbuddhism.org/attachment.html
- "Love with attachment consists of waves of emotion, usually creating invisible iron chains." Ordinary love tends to create bonds that may turn very unpleasant.
- Ordinary love is based on selfishness: attraction to others because they help us.
- Ordinary love is often based on opinions like beauty and status, which may be quite irrelevant or even obstacles for being able to live happily together with the person.
- Exaggeration and projection are the main reasons that ordinary love leads to disappointments. To illustrate this some words from M. Scott Peck on "ordinary love":
"The myth of romantic love is a dreadful lie. Perhaps it is a necessary lie in that it assures the 'falling in love'- experience that traps us into marriage. But as a psychiatrist I weep in my heart almost daily for the ghastly confusion and suffering that this myth fosters. Millions of people waste vast amounts of energy desperately in an attempt to make the reality of their lives conform to the unreality of the myth."
- "Being in love" may be a very exciting emotional condition, but is it really happiness, or is it often mixed with a fair amount of suffering?
- Attachment gives us the feeling of: How can this relationship fulfil MY needs? Real love would ask: What can I do for the OTHER?
- Attachment based on selfishness: if you are good to me, I am good to you. Altruistic love is based on equanimity: one realises that others are like me and want happiness. It is wishing others to be happy just because they exist.
- Attachment leads to possessiveness: MY husband, MY wife, MY friend, MY family. Did you ever realise that we cannot own people, unless you believe in slavery? Possessiveness leads to FEAR of losing, fake affection out of fear, overprotection, craving, jealousy or even the feeling: I can't live without her/him/my car/my cat/chocolate/pizzas/my job/my jewellery/my music....
- Is the perfection we think to see in the loved one really there, or do we simply close our eyes for the negative qualities?
- Is the perfection we are looking for achievable? An old Sufi tale as illustration:
"One afternoon, Nasruddin and his friend were sitting in a cafe, drinking tea and talking about life and love. His friend asked: 'How come you never married?'
'Well,' said Nasruddin, 'to tell you the truth, I spend my youth looking for the perfect woman. In Cairo I met a beautiful and intelligent woman, but she was unkind. Then in Baghdad, I met a woman who was a wonderful and generous soul, but we had no common interests. One woman after another would seem just right, but there would always be something missing. Then one day, I met her; beautiful, intelligent, generous and kind. We had very much in common. In fact, she was perfect!'
'So, what happened?' asked Nasruddin's friend, 'Why didn't you marry her?'
Nasruddin sipped his tea reflectively. 'Well,' he replied, 'it's really the sad story of my life.... It seemed that she was looking for the perfect man...' "
To summarise: our own projections, selfish expectations and exaggerations are the foundations of attachment and the unavoidable disappointment.
We want to get love, rather than give love.
We seek understanding, rather than trying to understand.
We seek self-confidence, rather than respecting others.
We seek praise and encouragement, rather than giving praise and encouragement .
We don't like criticism, but like to criticise others.
0
Comments
You are correct:
You need to give without expectations of receiving anything in return.
Im sure you know a lot and have a lot of understanding. Did buddhism helped you to achieve this? Do your peace of mind changed when you learn this and experienced?
I find it hard to give unconditional love because i am quite a selfish person. But i am being tried and tested as my husband suffers from bi-polar depression. He doesn't like me to go far without him. I would like to go abroad but as he doesn't want to and i cannot go on my own without him being unhappy about it, i feel that i have to put some of my wishes on hold. My ego doesn't like it and kicks furiously. Maybe a lot of you would say, just go and stuff him as a few people have told me to do, but i feel that i must put my husbands' wishes first, (unless they become intolerable). I feel also that wanting to go abroad has more to do with my self image (somebody who is a jet setter) than with wanting to travel.
Does that make sense?
Godbless
Nutkins
i've gone through this and if the other wants to go fancy themselves with others.
then it is natural that jealousy arises because we attach to the stability of the relationship. thats the point of a relationship, marriage, etc. they are all contracts to say that we own each other. this occurs out of romantic love and then eventually the insecurity of change.
love is pure and free at first. then with time it evolves into something ugly because like all things it was based on the projection of an external savior. true happiness comes from when we find our true nature in the unconditioned contentment of what is.
so a correct relationship would be based on the premise of spirituality and working together to reach a state of contentment in the here and now.
to be honest with you we cannot own another person. we can barely pretend to own ourselves. everything is in flux. all relationships are in flux. the only thing we can do is make the best karma for the relationship. love is essentially the freedom and focusing on another's happiness. in turn we get happy as well.
romantic love comes and goes. the butterflies come and go. we must grow up and see that true love is affection, giving freedom of individuality, appreciation, acceptance, peace, kindness, etc. such love can be expanded towards anyone.
what we truly seek is ourselves. we seek the truth of the buddha. conditioned others can only give momentary glimpses into such freedom.
i could go on and on but you kind of just have to do it. find the right person. and play the game. and learn a lot. and fail and fail and fail. until you realize how bad you've been fucking up. then you gain insight into how to treat others. and you just get by. find peace without anyone else. then a person appears.
like the flower in spring. it will come and go. but the presence is always there.
Hello thanks for sharing your answer
Are you going to live forever? Maybe he should just toughen up.
You cant be with him always, dont sounds healthy and its ok for you to go on your own. Life is runing out.
Sounds like Osho xD.
You say you dont like much hearing him but this clip kinda worths it.
Its about what you say that love is freedom.
I also don't believe that jealousy is inevitable in relationships. It shouldn't be a part of a healthy relationship. And that is what a relationship should be based on: each respecting the other's freedom to make his or her own choices, and each doing his or her best to provide the other with comfort, joy, and happiness. You might be surprised at how often romance continues through the life of a long term relationship. I've seen a few relationships like that, with romance lasting through decades, and romance is still going strong in my current relationship, which is about four years old. Of course, every relationship is different, with many losing heat over time. But "true love," as you define it, has to be the bedrock of any healthy, lasting relationship.
Alan
This is not loving the person as he/she really is but being in love with an image of the other.
Metta is unconditional/true love ("I love you no matter what"). If it were true love there would be no attached conditions such as fidelity etc.
That doesn't mean that I would stop loving her or allow myself to be consumed with hatred. It might mean that the relationship would be over, unless trust could be rebuilt. This also doesn't mean that I'm seeking to "control" her "like an object." It does mean that I would expect my partner to honor any agreement that lies between us and to conduct herself as a loving, caring, and ethical person. These are the same expectations that I have for myself. If my partner is not willing to meet those expectations, then she is free to go with my blessings and my hope for her future happiness.
Incidentally, the Buddha himself listed expectations for both husband and wife in a marriage in the Sigalovada Sutta: Alan
To answer the OP, I believe human beings are by nature evolved to possess their loved ones (romantic love to be specific). Unconditional love while being crucial in the path to liberation is actually a deliberate act, one that requires long training for most people to achieve. So jealousy and possessiveness are normal I think, you must have already achieved high degree of liberation in order not to feel hurt when your partner has an affair.
Open relationship hell yeahhhhh!