What mahayana tradition is strictest?

minimayhen88

Dear all,

I am interested to research what Mahayana tradition is the most strict - in its following of precepts?

I am doing considerable research on the topic, and would be grateful of any answers

Jeffrey

Traditions aren't strict. People are.

Tosh

I think (and I'm not sure) that the main differences among Mahayana traditions will be either on emphasis of practise or on philosophical points. For example Zen seem to emphasis meditation and mindfulness, and Tibetan Buddhism seems to emphasise compassion; though both will practise meditation and compassion.

As for their philosophical differences, I don't really know. I'm studying Gelug Buddhism, so can't comment on the rest.

But in Zen you get hit with a stick if you fall asleep during meditation; so that sounds pretty strict to me. They don't even do that to you in the army.

taiyaki

the stick is used to awaken the body and usually you're tapped on the shoulders prior to getting hit. this is done to alert you to get ready for the slap.

it is done out of practicality, not out of strictness.

i think it all comes down to the sangha and the specific tradition, but ultimately the person.

i have heard that japanese zen is very strict. there are specific rules and guidelines to everything. but this is common among all schools.

Tosh

Yes, I was joking, apologies; I didn't make it obvious; sorry, taiyaki

Takuan

I've heard Rinzai is one of the strictest Zen schools. The style of Ch'an practiced at Shaolin is quite strict as well, from what I hear.

Jeffrey

What does strict mean? Does it mean you are somber and dry and no humor? Bowing and so forth? Getting hit?

Or does it mean that you keep a good intention to treat people well? Which can include humor, relaxation, and gentle touch?

I find that even the second method requires a lot of discipline due to the three poisons.

So what I would wonder is what the OP meant by strict?

Dakini

"Strict", as the OP defines it, in the context of Mahayana sects:

what Mahayana tradition is the most strict - in its following of precepts?

Jeffrey

They didn't define strict in the OP. For example does it mean they meditate for more hours a day? What does it mean?

Dakini

I think it means they expect monastics and teachers to abide by the precepts, and take disciplinary action against those who don't. Since there seems to be doubt about the OP's intent, perhaps minimayhen88 could join us to clarify....?

Jeffrey

So a sangha with a higher percentage of people who have taken vows and follow them is stricter?

My teacher has said that you can have alcohol, but that doesn't apply to people who have vowed not to drink alcohol. You could say my teacher is more compassionate because she reaches out to people who don't feel able to take vows. So that would be strictly adhering to the needs of beings to progress towards enlightenment. Obviously following the precepts would also be helpful, but it should be that sentient beings choice or else it is actually using force on them which I think is wrong.

Is the goal of buddhism to follow the precepts or to enlighten sentient beings to full buddhahood?

Dakini

No. A sect that expects its members who have taken vows, especially teachers and monastics, to keep them, is strict. And that would go for disciples who have taken vows, I assume. But ask the OP.

Jeffrey

I think strict would be to awaken sentient beings. And include as many as possible.

Does this mean to become a buddhist one should resort to a Christian self-help 12 step meeting? Before getting past the gate at the buddhist center? Obviously they need to have respect and not be drunk in group events. But, can't buddhism also be helpful to such a person? I have experienced the exact opposite in my life.

I am serious about helping sentient beings and I am strict about that.

Jeffrey

Its the same in meditation. You can be heavy or aggressive with yourself and it only causes agitation or dullness in the mind.

Pema Chodron says it is like training a dog. You can be harsh with the dog and it will obey. But it will be a fearful nervous dog. On the other hand you can be easy going and train a dog that is more flexible.

But as always different strokes for different folks. Some people respond to discipline quite well. I know many people on my brewing forum who have been in the military and they are very brave people and they are disciplined whereas I think if I were in the military especially considering my psychiatric illness it would be harmful.

So I didn't know what the OP considered strict: precepts, meditation, serious and somber. That is why I asked.

Paul

Fo Guang Shan is pretty strict.

Dakini

@Paul Do you have experience with Fo Guang Shan? I've heard good things about them, and my impression in that Ch'an generally observes good ethics. What's your perspective?

Paul

Dakini, I do know a monk who is affiliated with them and by the routine schedule he describes it seems intense. Personally though, I don't have any experience with them. I'm happy with Jodo Shu

minimayhen88

I'm sorry for the lack of clarity .... i am doing some intense research and wanted to know, .... what sect is the most disciplined ... would be a better way of putting it : ) .... as in precepts, vows, lifestyle etc. I have heard many times that Theravada is the most strict, but I wish to explore the Mahayana tradition in more depth.

Kindly,

Claudie x

minimayhen88

p.s. responses so far are great i will research Rinzai zen straight away thank you. I wish to do a masters in Buddhist studies as it majorly fascinates me.

Thank you