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"Bad people"

edited October 2011 in Buddhism Basics
I guess from the buddhist perspective there are arguably no bad people. And the specific people I am referring to are probably pretty low on the scale of evil if you think it exists at all. But I have a serious problem with judging people. It seems like the vast majority of people are selfish and superficial. My co-workers brought this to mind. I am in a habit of just fuming and ruminating about how small minded and obnoxious they are while I have to work with them... A big problem also is that one of them is my "best friend"'s wife. I hate her a lot of the time. for the same reason that I hate most of the rest of the population. And my hatred of her sometimes extends to him because if he has such poor taste in women then there must be something wrong with him. That is, when he is not embodying those negative characteristics himself. It just seems like there is a great deal wrong in the world but most people don't really care. This perception puts me frequently in a deep black state of frustration and despair... I might could let this go if I could convince myself fully that my perceptions are inaccurate. Maybe even if they are accurate I can learn to let go of the pain while doing my part to find a solution to the problem... Has anyone else wrestled with and especially overcome this type of problem? If anyone could share some experience or insight I would be very grateful.

(I hope this is not inappropriate subject matter for this board. If it is I apologize.)

Comments

  • ps, I have a depression problem... Maybe some meds would clear it all up... but I fear that if I were "happy" then I would lose my inclination to help others. As I guess that is what I perceive in others. "I have my toys why should I care if others are starving?"
  • Don't bother with others as this is out of control. Be the change you want to see. Be the guiding light and shining example of what you admire. Also remember all people are empty of any permanent characteristics. Thus there is only your projection/interpretation. There is no other. Just your stories of others.

    Also you only see parts of yourself. The good and bad is all potentiality within our minds. Wear shoes rather than placint leather everywhere you go.

    Accept people as they are. They Are where they are and thats their path.
  • Thanks for the response Taiyaki. I'm sure you are correct. I am also sure embodying that perspective is much easier said than done. But I will try.

    Not to beat a dead horse but just to share a specific example that I am currently in the midst of; My five year old daughter is here with me, She stays with me on the weekends and with her mother during the week, and she is coughing so much that she can't sleep and she made herself vomit because her mother chooses to smoke cigarettes around her all the time... It is very difficult not to be frustrated by that...
  • Isn't there a law in some states that considers subjecting children to second-hand smoke to be child abuse? Take her to see a doctor about this, to create a paper trail. Try to address this with the judge who arranged shared custody. This is serious.

    There is indeed a lot wrong with the world. People care, many feel helpless, or are too busy struggling to pay the bills. If you can find an activist group that suits your interests, that will help alleviate your frustration. Channel that energy into constructive venues.

    Different people react differently to depression meds. I think they're best used temporarily, while the patient is in therapy to address the root of the problem. With effective therapy, people are able to go off the meds. IF you do get meds, bear in mind that you can't quit the SRI-class meds (serotonin reuptake inhibitors) cold turkey. You must ease off them gradually. I've heard warnings that it's very dangerous to go off them suddenly.

    When you feel happy and contented, you have that much more energy to apply to contributing to positive change in the world. If you're a caring person, which you seem to be, stabilizing your mood doesn't mean you decide "I've got mine, to heck with everyone else." Having experience with depression or other illness means you have that much compassion to give to others. You're on the right track--you've identified some serious problems. Now go after the solutions.
  • chariramacharirama Veteran
    edited October 2011
    bad people or not, when you hate it is you who suffer

    your frustration is what is bothering you - the best thing you can do is comfort your daughter

    i know it is difficult, i went through a similar situation with my children and i discovered that even though i could not control the situation, i could control how i reacted to it - once i gained control of myself, my anger and frustration subsided
  • You do what you have to do. Sometimes its anger. Sometimes compassion. Then you take action.

    What you do is most obvious.

    Sorry man but you know what you need to do.
  • Guh. Somehow I just feel worse now than I did before I posted this. Sorry for the rant. Please close this.
  • Just breathe. Everything is going to be okay. Just help others the best you can. What else can you do?

  • aMattaMatt Veteran
    edited October 2011
    Shays860,

    I can understand what it feels like to observe qualities in others, and feel a sense of dispair and judgement for their decisions and perspective. It also makes sense to me that you would feel utterly drained after a lot of time in that mindset. I do think there is a solution for this kind of puzzle! A couple things came to mind when I read your post.

    I don't think the people you work with are evil or all that extraordinary. They are just like everyone else, in that they are looking for a sense of happiness and buoyancy. When we have a lack of contentment, we act selfishly... because our mind is too agitated to relate skillfully to the environment. Its like when we stub our toe, and the resulting sensation is so overwhelming that we get lost in our own dancing.

    Buddha taught that ignorance is something we all have, and it takes time and effort to cut through it. In the metaphor of the toe, we don't know the layout of the room, so we stub and stub until we figure out how to open our eyes and learn the layout. This learning process can look like "selfishness" and "superficial". As we set aside our own judgement for them and make room in our mind, those labels fall away. What we can then see is the causes and conditions that give rise to suffering (ours and theirs), and we are naturally moved to relate to the events in a skillful way.

    If we turn our eye to your expressed difficulty, for instance, the process of judging and labelling other's actions as "selfish" or "meaningless" is stubbing your toe, and causes a lot of hardship for your own body. Said differently, the mental energy it takes to sustain a view of an "annoying person" who is "selfish and superficial" is very intense, and draining. Does that make sense?

    Instead, what you could do is work to clear away how you think they should be acting. Just let go of the fabric of that whole judgment habit, using the concentration you cultivate through mindful practices. Notice how it does you no good, is a leftover habit you can outgrow... empty of any value or meaning. As you see others, just try to watch how their desires are directed in unskillful ways, which lead them into painful experiences. These are our brothers and sisters, and they are caught in a web of cause and effect. Its sad, like how you've been caught in a web of judgement/anxiety but are a wonderful person. Instead of scorn, you can cultivate love for them, which in turn cultivates confidence in you.

    If and when the conditions ripen for them, they will set aside the habits that don't work for them and grow into more aware and compassionate beings. By turning inward and settling your own self, you initiate that change in the world... first in your own view, then in others as your compassion shines outward.

    With warmth,

    Matt
  • *sigh* Thanks for the support guys. lol. I think I need a buddhist counselor...
  • seeker242seeker242 Zen Florida, USA Veteran
    If you want for this to stop, you must learn where and where not to focus your mind and how to maintain that focus. These things arise because you focus your mind on "bad" things, which causes hate to arise. Stop focusing your mind on "bad" things and anger does not arise. It's that simple! :) That is what Metta practice is all about, practicing focusing your mind on "goodness" instead of "badness". By focusing your mind on "goodness", peace, love and happiness arise. It's simple cause and effect in action. :)
  • If only there were a simple answer to this dilemma. Mind may be focusing on hatred and intolerance - but blaming something or someone has a payoff. Mind derives some pleasure from isolating as righteous from all that is corrupted. See that such thinking is really part of the corruption - the defilement. Metta - forgiveness - for self and others are good suggestions.

    Maintaining hatred/anger is exceedingly taxing on one's emotional energy. As much as it carries a (delusional) feeling of empowerment - it can leave one depleted - prone to depression - pysical illness. You have an awareness of this mindset - of its habitual nature - how unsatisfactory it is - how it holds you. Continue to see yourself - don't say "fuck it" - it may take years - but if you want it you will break through.

    SSRI's may provide you with a bridge to begin transitioning. Counseling - meditation - spiritual pursuit are all good suggestions - but ultimately you must find what works for you. Controlling mind may not entail "stopping" hatred - rather observing its arising without investing in it. Seeing it as defilement and carrying on. Easier said than done - but don't give up if you want it - ever.

    While there seems on the surface to be really "bad" people - there is really only bad behavior.

    Forgive them, for they know not what they do.....
  • I am in a habit of just fuming and ruminating about how small minded and obnoxious they are while I have to work with them... ...It just seems like there is a great deal wrong in the world but most people don't really care. This perception puts me frequently in a deep black state of frustration and despair...
    I know *exactly* the sort of thing your talking about. As a person who has provincialism at the top of my :list of things I hate" and living in the rural southern US it can seem to be a terrible combination (like mixing bleach and ammonia together!)

    Its only been the last couple years that I have begun to deal with it rather than simply shake my fist at the people around me (figuratively speaking). The problem is that it would only result in me getting myself angry and unhappy. The reality is that no one can "make" you angry. Its really just me becoming anger itself.

    What I try to bear in mind though is people are raised in a certain environment and culture and there really isn't much you can do about that. But the fact remains that we are all sentient beings, we all have our delusions and conditioning of ignorance. There is no human being that does not deserve compassion. Does that mean it is easy? Hell no!

    What I have found in my own experience though is that meditation is teaching me to drop all those standards to measure individuals like that. In Mahayana, one doesn't sit in order to awaken for oneself but in order to help all other sentient beings first. I recite a small metta "prayer" after sitting, often times with a particular person in mind (I make sure to state their name), based on certain difficulties that person may be having that I am aware of.

    The thing is, I don't think you can force yourself to be less judgemental. But meditation, gradually, over time, does soften the edges, slowly dropping those things that create more suffering for yourself. You learn to be compassionate but in this roundabout way.
  • I can relate, shays. I am happy to have found Buddhism, because it taught me to change my hatred into compassion, empathy, and positive energy. It isn't always easy, but engaging in hatred just injures you. I try to be nice and feel compassion and empathy for other people, even if I perceive them to be hateful and injurious. Gotta look out for your own karma, man. Don't want to be reborn as a mole rat.
  • I grapple with that same problem every day. I have a difficult time respecting most of the people I meet in my my life. A solution I have found that works for me is to view a person(s) from two different viewpoints. As a person and as a human being. I find I have great compassion for humanity ( the human being ) and feel a kniship to all humans ( and all living things for that matter ) because we are linked to each other by our suffering. As to the person, i.e. the unique characteristics that make us different from each other I have little patience. I realize how ignorant I am and can only guess how much I need to learn. I am by nature a humble person. When I see others as "people" who claim "to know" and yet act in ways that are counter productive to achieving the positive goals even they deem important I lose respect for them. It's a "Small Mind/Big Mind thing." "People" actually believe we are the center of the universe, that the "I" and "Self" actually exist. They live too much for the future and value the acquisation of "stuff". " Hungry Ghosts". There is so much unhappiness in their lives. They just work harder at the thing that is causing them, and others much pain and suffering.
  • Thanks again everybody. One thing I meant to clarify earlier is that my feelings on the matter are split. There is a part of me, maybe even the larger part, that knows that anger is self defeating. But with extended exposure to triggers my defense seems to weaken. I saw it happening pretty clearly yesterday. I would get irritated at their idea of amusement, entertainment, humor, "shooting the shit", whatever you want to call the basically pointless (I know it's not really necessarily pointless but it frequently seems like it) vocal interaction humans engage in. And early on I would question myself "why am I getting irritated by this" and I would let it go. It started and stoppped a few more times but eventually the negativity won the war.

    Another thing I meant to note is that I really don't think I'm better than people. I was just expressing my emotions as I experience them. I am definitely going to continue to work on the problem. Sometimes I entertain the thought that I am at my current job for the greater purpose of learning to have patience with people. And, once again, not to be conceited, but I guess if I am to hold myself to the bodhisattva's vow then I have to learn to relate to others and speak in their language.

  • Well, the important thing is you are aware of it. The more you become aware of it, the less likely it will become an obstruction for you. It will take time, certainly, but it sounds to me like you're headed in the right direction. :)
    Sometimes I entertain the thought that I am at my current job for the greater purpose of learning to have patience with people.
    _()_ Yes! I have begun to learn also that there is no place and no thing that is not practice.
  • Are you angry? That's OK.
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