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Refuge, Celibacy, and Masturbation
I am having difficulty as to where to start this.
Ok, let's start with celibacy, for those of you (if any) who are celibate what are your thoughts/opinions/experiences on auto gratification? Is it part of celibacy to *never* do that? Do you consider celibacy absolute in that there is zero sexual gratification? I have known people who do not engage others in a physical sense, but still engaged themselves so to speak, and they still considered themselves celibate.
I know as far as monastics are concerned celibacy is absolute, which leads to my next question:
Have any of you taken refuge? If so does that too mean cessation of sexual contact with self and/or others? I am not clear on what it means to take refuge as yet, and thus have much to learn.
I am considering some big changes in my life, and this may be a central issue because quite honestly it's a very hard concept to grasp, having been a sexual being for so many years. Perhaps it can be done in steps by starting off with not engaging others, then ceasing to engage oneself, and perhaps avoiding situations that may cause the cravings.
It would seem that if one kept busy enough that things like this could fall by the wayside...busy as in finding other levels of fulfillment such as spiritual pursuits as the basis, social interactions, volunteer work, etc.
Ok, let's start with celibacy, for those of you (if any) who are celibate what are your thoughts/opinions/experiences on auto gratification? Is it part of celibacy to *never* do that? Do you consider celibacy absolute in that there is zero sexual gratification? I have known people who do not engage others in a physical sense, but still engaged themselves so to speak, and they still considered themselves celibate.
I know as far as monastics are concerned celibacy is absolute, which leads to my next question:
Have any of you taken refuge? If so does that too mean cessation of sexual contact with self and/or others? I am not clear on what it means to take refuge as yet, and thus have much to learn.
I am considering some big changes in my life, and this may be a central issue because quite honestly it's a very hard concept to grasp, having been a sexual being for so many years. Perhaps it can be done in steps by starting off with not engaging others, then ceasing to engage oneself, and perhaps avoiding situations that may cause the cravings.
It would seem that if one kept busy enough that things like this could fall by the wayside...busy as in finding other levels of fulfillment such as spiritual pursuits as the basis, social interactions, volunteer work, etc.
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Comments
As far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not attached to it (so to speak... ahem..), there is nothing wrong with celibacy, sexual activity with another (N8P, remember...), or masturbation. It's normal, healthy behavior. It's when it becomes an obsession and an attachment that it becomes a problem. If you want to be celibate, be celibate. If you want to have sex, have sex. If you want to masturbate, masturbate.
And after you're done, go meditate
I have no wish whatsoever to procreate, nor could I had I wanted to, so in and of itself sex would just be for pleasure's sake. Then comes the matter of being attached to the high that sex brings, and if it's appropriate in the spiritual context.
I do not see myself becoming a monk any time soon, if ever, much as I admire their commitment. However I have this idea that in order to be more committed to the path that I should eschew the pleasure. Which I guess makes it attachment....to celibacy, or at the very least, the idea of it.
Aw shucks, now I am confused. :-/
That said, as a layperson, you're not required to make a commitment to celibacy. Refuge vows are only about taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. That's it. Lay people can also vow to keep the first 5 precepts. If you want to take an additional vow of celibacy, that's up to you. It depends on the level of commitment you want to make. Only you can decide what's right and best for you. As you know, celibacy would help avoid attachments to worldly pleasure, if you can hack the celibacy. One advantage of celibacy is that it can cut way back on the amount of drama in life. It's not for everyone, though. Even monks cheat, some of them.
It sounds like you take your practice seriously, and you're giving a lot of thought to your level of commitment. This in itself is a good thing.
"Sex is a powerful force in us all. In itself it is neither "good" nor "bad." But it can certainly create problems. And modern Western man is particularly prone to such problems, partly because of the sheer hectic pace and pressure of modern life, which exaggerates all our troubles, and more specifically because of his background. A puritanical Church tradition (one extreme) has now been vigorously challenged by a secular spirit of permissiveness (the other extreme). For many people it is not at all easy to find the middle way between these two extremes.
There is nothing "sinful" about sex. If we make mistakes, we should recognize them and try to avoid repeating them, but we should not develop guilt-complexes about them. Sexual lapses are not uniquely wicked, and in fact all but the grosser forms of sexual misconduct are probably on the whole less harmful socially than a lot of other things many people do. But it should be borne in mind that sex does usually involve at least one other person, and potentially the next generation. In this respect it is strictly incumbent on us at all times to act responsibly which means compassionately. Otherwise, the physical and emotional consequences for somebody may be very serious.
The ideal of sex only within monogamous marriage should be just as valid for Buddhists as for Christians. It should, at least, not be lightly departed from.
The way of mindfulness has been recommended above. Admittedly, not everybody is prepared to practice intensive mindfulness, whatever benefits may be urged for it. But even a moderate degree of habitual mindfulness can produce surprising results. If we learn, with detachment, to watch our desires at play, it is often quite astonishing how they seem to "drop away," almost of their own accord. To take as an example a related problem: many people, when they first come to Buddhism, are worried about the Fifth Precept, which deals with intoxication. "Can't I have a drink occasionally?" they ask, often rather anxiously. The answer is, of course: "It's up to you." But in this case, too, having tried a little mindfulness, they are frequently surprised to find that they want a drink less and less. As a matter of fact, the same principle applies here too. Having discovered the principle, applied it and found that it works, we can decide for ourselves how far we wish to take it. It will take us as far as we are prepared to go.
Some readers may wonder that there has been no mention of the word "love" in the foregoing. To have discussed this question would have led too far. So I will merely quote the following two phrases from a newspaper advice-column:
"I am in love" means "I want me to be happy"; "I love" means "I want to make you happy."
Buddhists might reflect, and even meditate, on these two statements — at various levels.
Golden Rule: Never let Passion override Compassion"
sexual misconduct is fairly simple. don't have sex with people who are married or in relationships. don't have sex with children. don't have sex outside of your relationship. don't use sex to gain power, etc.
normal healthy sexual relationships (highly subjective). basically don't harm another.
it's very simple and straight forward.
but that is for people who take vows.
monks on the other hand based on tradition have different rules they need to follow. in the taego order of korean zen buddhism it is okay for a monk to engage in sex. this is because the taego order grew out of a split between celibate monks and monks who had families. this was influenced by the japanese when they took over korea.
in taego zen we emphasize intergration of buddha dharma in everyday life. in the ordinary mundane existence. thus the cater is obvious towards lay life. the line between laylife and the monks life is blurred.
sex is renounced to focus and have less distractions. though it must be renounced willingly for this, rather than enforced.
idk if this helps, but i hope this gives you a nice history lesson hehe.
As for your compliment I have a confession to make, I feel like a complete and utter fraud in that regard. Why? I have not been to a sangha in a year and a half, and do not practice at home *at all* because we have a houseful of people and animals, so for me (I have ADD and am very easily and badly distracted) quality meditation is impossible with all the noise.
The bright side of this is that things are changing. My housemates (former gf, and her sister) are moving out and taking most of the animals with them. My cats are quiet, so that's fine.
I hope to return to the sangha, however until I again secure employment I am not going because I do not wish to again start and stop, the job I am waiting to hear from would be during hours I would attend sangha, including Saturdays, so I'd need to choose a day that I am not working. (If I even get this job)
There are several groups that meet at the sangha, and I have been to one which was not totally meeting my needs(Pure Land), so I would like to try another (Tibetan), however this dabbling is frustrating too because I want something I can stick with. Maybe my expectations are too high. However I can still have a practice at home.
Anyway, I am sorry if I seem to have misrepresented myself, at least as I am now, however I am getting back there
Thank you for your kindness.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/khantipalo/wheel206.html
As I mentioned things are changing in my living situation, and I fully plan to begin practice at home again. For that I am glad, even though it means closure of my recently ended relationship.
I am aware that a sangha is *not* the be-all end-all, however I like the energy of group chanting, and the exchange of ideas during dharma discussions. Even if I cannot attend every single week I will be supplementing my at-home practice. Plus it plays a role as a much needed social activity in my life, as I tend to be a homebody more than I should.
Right now I am reading a lot online, so it's a start. Plus I have books that I plan to re-read or read for the first time. I am also going back to basics...noble truths and so on.
Even though I started this back in 2004 I am still technically a beginner, hence my presence here. I learn.
"Practice" is the honesty you bring to bear on your own self-examination, and that you display in your posts to us. "Practice" is the patience you're applied to your living situation and roommates, including the animals. I haven't been to a sangha in some years, but that doesn't stop me from studying, learning and practicing. Buddhism isn't about judging yourself (for being a lax practitioner in this case). You're doing the best you can, and a very good job if it, I might add. Carry on, more power to you! :thumbsup:
Sorry, but that phrase made me laugh! Even if you have ADD, "quality meditation" (as opposed to some other kind?????) isn't a matter of how much noise there is in the house. Quite the opposite.
There's no such thing as "quality" meditation. Meditation is meditation. Sometimes it's easy and pleasant, sometimes it isn't. It just is though...
If I cannot focus I cannot really have meditation. I have tried in the car, on a train and plane, in the bathroom (!). I guess it sounds like an excuse, huh?
To me quality meditation is quiet, focused, and accomplished grounding or centering. If I cannot attain relaxation on some level I get nothing whatsoever from it. Dunno what else to say about that.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/burns/wheel088.html#fn-22
"During meditation, when the practitioner finds that his mind has strayed from its subject, there should be no attempt to suppress or forcibly remove the extraneous thoughts. Rather he should briefly take mental note of them and objectively label them with some appropriate term. This may be done by thinking to himself "planning," "remembering," "imagining," etc., as the case may be. Then he should return to his original meditation subject. However, if after several tries the unwanted thoughts persist, he should temporarily take the thoughts themselves as the meditation subject. In so doing their intensity will diminish, and he can then return to his original subject. This same technique can be used for distracting noises. It can also be used for feelings of anger or frustration, which may develop as the result of unwanted thoughts or distractions. In these instances the meditator should think to himself "noise," or "irritation."
It's a work-in-progress, thus is Buddhism, ongoing and ever-changing like the flow of a mighty river.
Also, as important as meditation may be I feel the N8P may be more so for navigating life as we know it. Meditation is more for ourselves and our growth, and N8P benefits others as well...wait, I am preaching to the choir, aren't I? :eek2: